29 - Brendan McKay, Embracing Authenticity and Creativity in Photography and Car Culture

Explore the insights of Brendan McKay as he reflects on his journey through photography, car culture, and the influence of personal experiences. This conversation delves into the importance of intentionality, the evolving relationship with art, and how life moments shape creative expression.

Key Topics

• Brendan's background in finance and transition into photography
• The role of family and childhood experiences in shaping his love for cars and photography
• Evolution of car culture across the East and West Coasts
• The significance of capturing authentic moments versus curated aesthetic
• The impact of social media on creative expression and self-perception
• Finding purpose through art and recognizing burnout or shifts in passion
• The interplay between film and digital photography, experimentation, and manipulation
• The importance of intentionality in photography—acting with presence and purpose
• Personal reflections on mortality, loss, and the motivation to create meaningful work
• Brendan's upcoming exhibitions, projects, and aspirations for future work

Timestamps

01:00 - Opening questions and Brendan’s background 

03:48 - Brendan’s move from East Coast to West Coast 

06:09 - Family influence and early photography interests 

010:33 - The evolution of car culture and personal car history 

13:56 - Moments of discovery in car community and photography 19:13 - Intentionality in vehicle and portrait photography 

24:20 - The challenge and liberation of social media engagement 

27:10 - The profound shift in art for the artist versus audience 

34:35 - Balancing passion projects with day job in finance 

39:26 - Recognizing shifts and emptiness in car-based photography 

44:27 - Exploring film versus digital mediums 

46:29 - The significance of prints, manipulation, and authenticity 

55:16 - Facing mortality and its effect on purpose and creation 

59:10 - Brendan’s upcoming exhibitions and projects 

60:10 - Closing thoughts and the value of honest conversations

Resources & Links

• Todd Hido on Aperture
• Langston Clay's Cars
• Brennan McKay's Blog

Connect with Brendan McKay

• Instagram
• Website

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I first got to know Brendan McKay while driving some of California's most beautiful backroads on a few rallies hosted by Ether. Between the mountain passes, winding roads, and roadside stops, we found ourselves having thoughtful conversations about photography, creativity, and life. Those moments eventually led to this conversation. One of the things I've come to appreciate most is that car culture is about so much more than the cars themselves. At its best, it's a community that brings together people from completely different backgrounds through a shared passion and a willingness to slow down and connect. In this episode, Brennan and I explore photography, cars, writing, and the experiences that shape the way we create. From road trips to automotive culture to building a more intentional relationship with art and the creative process. We talk about what it means to pursue work that feels meaningful, not just work that gets attention. First of all, Brennan, I just want to say thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. Absolutely. I just want to start out real simple. Where are you from?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Uh originally grew up in Connecticut. Uh so first part of my life spent out east. Um, went to school in Boston and started my early professional career, New York and mostly Boston. Then wife and I moved here. Gosh, it's going on almost 10 years now in 2018.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

What was uh your professional career in the East Coast?

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Uh a version of what I do today. So um, you know, when I went to school, I went to school for, you know, management, finance, and accounting, um, and did an internship at an investment bank, did two years to in after that, and then quickly figured out like that wasn't for me, the long hours, just didn't really enjoy that style of work, but sort of liked elements of what I was doing. So I um flipped over to what we call the buy side and started working at a debt and hybrid debt and equity investment business. Um that's what I was doing out in Boston.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

What brought you to the West Coast?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Um, kind of like a version of, I think it's like what a lot of people experience. There's like this life poll, and then there's maybe a bit of a work pull that happens as well. Both my wife and I think, despite growing up on the East Coast, she's from upstate New York. I think we were just ready for a change. We I I knew that I just didn't really fit there. I think there was a bit of like for me, just this recognition culturally and the interests I had. Just not many of my friends shared the same interest out there. There weren't as many small ecosystems that I could participate in. And so I looked, you know, west as many people do and said, man, that's like a really vibrant cultural spot. And then for me, professionally, I had the opportunity to basically move out here and expand an office in this direction. So there's like nice symbiosis with that.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

And was that something that both you and your wife were into, or was it something you had to convince her?

SPEAKER_03 2:40

No, she I would say she was actually maybe a bit of the driving force behind it. Um, she she was born out this way and spent most of her childhood, yeah, with parents actually visiting the West Coast. So my brother's been in town for for ages. So we knew the area and it became a real love of hers. And I share, you know, I shared the interest, but as you probably already know, or you'll you'll find out, um, I'm also someone that's like totally okay staying put, unless there's like this seismic force that might move me off that ledge. Right. And so yeah, she she was a real driving force for getting us out here, which you know, like you look at these life instances and you can pick singular moments where you're like, had that happened, had that not happened, I'd be somewhere totally different. And moving to the West Coast LA specifically is that for me in a very positive way.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

When did photography enter the picture?

SPEAKER_03 3:32

Um honestly, like if I go way back, I think I always had an interest in it. I can I can actually remember taking summer camp courses and being in dark rooms and actually weirdly like loving the smell of the developer. Um I don't think anything I produced back then was was, you know, notable in any means. But I how old were you? Eight, nine, ten. Um oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. We we went to a couple cool camps growing up where you know the morning was spent doing, you know, athletics and you could pick a couple sports, and then the afternoon you sort of had a lot of things to choose from. And photography one year was like one of the things I was like, I didn't know what it was. I just, you know, they gave you a camera and you got to play around with it.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Um did you have a dad or an uncle or or or an aunt or a mom that was interested in photography?

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Always a camera around growing up. I actually have my father's old film canon. Um I don't I don't use it like film has not really become a thing for me yet, although I'm starting to like, I think, scratch that ditch a little bit more. But there was always a camera, video camera was a big thing. Like we still have a lot of home videos that every time I go home will like maybe pop one in to look at. So yeah, it was like it was always lying around. My grandfather actually, I have a lot of his old photographs. If if anything, it maybe like skipped a generation in terms of his love of photography and some of the work that I have of his and what I do now.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

But was your grandfather like taking family pictures or was he taking like photography pictures?

SPEAKER_03 5:02

More, more family. And what's an interesting through line is like where I had where I've really found resonance in the medium is photographing on the road. Um, whether it's through like some of the ether rallies that you and I participated in. I think anyone that follows me on social media knows that like the great American solo road trip is this thing that I just kind of have to do every year. And so a lot of my grandfather's work uh is from his time in the army, actually, when he was in Iceland and traveling around in Europe.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah, yeah. So it's it's neat. I'll actually I'll bring it next time we get together. I'll bring you some of of the small prints that I have from him.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah, I mean, if you have any scan, that would be amazing too. Like, even when, you know, I produce his podcast to show some right now, that'd be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Yeah, I can I can definitely do that. And so, like, what did he like to shoot? I think he just took photographs of what was around him, and that's that's truly the stuff that I love to photograph too. And I'm loath to like box myself into a specific category, but when I think of all the photography books that I have and a lot of the stuff that I follow on social media, like there's the car part of my life in terms of what I produce and some of the prints I've made and some of the stuff that I've like lightly been hired to do. And then there's the deep love part of my photography life, and it's this combination of journalistic, documentary, observational, diaristic, like narrative focused. What was it like to be in a place or with a person at a specific moment in time? And so I don't know if that was an intentional on my grandfather's part, but that's what the result was.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the thing too is I was also with my dad, and you know, some of the the younger generation doesn't understand that. Um, you know, if you wanted to remember anything, everybody had to be a photographer because you had to literally take pictures, you know. And before digital became a thing, you had to take film pictures and you took all these pictures and you had no idea if they came out.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

And then you'd come home and you, you know, some people wouldn't even develop them that that soon. So um, you know, every I I love hearing these stories of of their fathers and grandfathers um, you know, not necessarily being photographers, but they were photographers. They were the family photographer.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Exactly. Yeah. And whether it was intentional at the time or you just felt compelled to do it, you there was something about a moment that made you want to capture it. And it's almost like transference of memory and feeling more so than the physical product itself, which I we can get into, I'm sure we'll get into just how does social media and Instagram fit into all this these days. I think everyone's got strong opinions about it.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, I remember when when phones first were able to take pictures and people would ask me, like, oh, doesn't it upset you that that people are just taking pictures with their phones now? And I was like, no, you know, like I think it's great that people are being creative and taking pictures, but now it's gotten to the point where like we take so many pictures that um it's like going to a concert and and recording the concert. Like you actually really even watch it again. No one rewatches that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I think where it's like an overload of of information that we have on our phone that's like, you know, thank God for memories, because then it's kind of like, oh man, I forgot I even had this in my phone.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Yeah, a hundred percent. And and it there's so many, there's so many things that are like wrapped up in that. You know, what is beauty? Well, like if everything's beautiful and everything is worthy of a photograph, then what truly is at the end of the day? Yeah, it makes you ask questions around what is the value of a photograph? What is the what is what are you sacrificing to make the photograph? Yeah. Um in a world where, you know, one of the favorite catch or least favorite catchphrases I think exists are when people say, Well, what's the best camera? And some people will say, Well, it's the one in your hand. It's the it's whatever you have, and everyone has an iPhone these days. And I actually like I disagree with that. It's the best camera is the one that compels you to make work and you feel most connected to the product of that specific tool, which for me is not the phone. I hate taking pictures on my phone.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

When um because you and I met through car culture, when when did car culture become a thing for you?

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Yeah, that's a hundred percent a father connection for me. So we didn't grow up with anything what I would consider these days to be nice, but it's so nostalgic for me that you know, if I could ever find the cars that I drove around growing up, like I'd sell the 9-11 in a heartbeat. I know they've gone to the crusher for sure. They just don't exist anymore. But what are some of those cars? Uh, Volvo 240 station wagon, what you know, like the white refrigerator on wheels that every high schooler has to drive.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Uh that was that was one. And then the first car that my father ever purchased for himself new off the lot. We we only ever bought used cars growing up. We, he and my mom. Um was a 90, it was either a 90 or a 91 Volkswagen golf. And that was the car that I partially learned to drive on five speed. I have so many specific memories of driving improperly, you know, in that car, couple miles home with the e-brake on and wondering why it smelled so bad. And, you know, a road trip with my father from Connecticut to New Hampshire to visit our grandparents, and he and I shared a pack of Oreos together on the way up, which if my mom had been in the car, would not have been allowed. So there's just, you know, the there's the car itself and the object. And for me, it's the memories associated with that. We didn't wrench on it in any traditional sense, but he and I would change the oil together or change tires together. And I just, I feel that's where the love of cars happened for me. And then I also grew up with Fast and the Furious. So like that's the other layer.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

What would would you guys take road trips a lot?

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Only to visit family. And then I actually do recall one. This was family-driven as well, but we drove from Connecticut to Michigan where the other side of my grandparents were, and my family and I turned make a road trip out of it. So we actually went up through Canada, saw a bunch of stuff, stopped, stopped at Niagara Falls, went and visited a bunch of places, and I just I have these distinct memories. That was in the wagon, and so pulling over the side of the road, eating peanut butter and fluff sandwiches for lunch and dinner. And like, you know, in the moment as a child, you don't like it. And now, if I could go do anything again, it would be stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah. I mean, that's where my love for cars come from, is is literally is just uh road trips. You know, my dad uh worked from in San Francisco, but he also had a lot of uh work in LA. So he would do the the road trip from San Francisco to LA. Sometimes he would go back and forth in one day and he would take me just so you know, he would have somebody to keep him awake. Yeah. And um, you know, that that was it. My dad didn't like listening to music when we drove, so I literally would just look out the window. You know, there was no video games, there was no you can't read. I couldn't read when I was driving. I would literally just watch and my dad and I we had a okay relationship, but we weren't like talkers, like we weren't like talking the whole time, you know. So I would literally just look out the window the whole time. And I loved it, you know. I I loved it. And then I lived on the East Coast, so for me, driving six hours or even 12 hours in a day wasn't that big of a deal. So like the first time somebody's like, Hey, you want to go to Philly? I was like, Yeah, sure. How long of a drive is that? It's like an hour and a half. I was like, what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

It's like going to East LA.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Yeah, exactly. So where did the um I'm assuming your love for Porsches come?

SPEAKER_03 13:04

That was that's an interesting thing. So those that know me well, I'll have I don't have I wouldn't describe the a love-hate relationship that I have with the car, but it's almost like a love, every so often I fall out of love with the vehicle for no specific reason. But when we moved to LA, one of my big dreams was to own something classic. And the posters that I had growing up were Camaros and Mustangs and Chevelles. So that's truly where I thought I would go. We have eventually had garage space open up at our old apartment building. So as soon as that happened, I tapped my wife on the shoulder and said, Hey, I want to actually go start living this part of the dream I've always had as a kid. And up until that point, I had been going to a couple of these old school cars and coffees, like the pre-pandemic cars and coffees, where it was a bunch of old heads, super small format. There was the one that would happen up Malibu near the baseball fields. Okay. And uh I rolled in, and rightly or wrongly, I had always had this What were you driving at the time? What'd you roll in at? Uh our X3. Okay. And I remember I pull up and they're like, Do you want to show your car? And I was like, No, I want to park as far away as possible. Like, what do you got? And um, and so I walk in and I I will say very incorrectly, I had always had this perspective of Porsche as a very elitist thing. Same. And I remember walking in and I started looking at very gorgeous resto mod builds. David Keynes, who you probably know from the community, or you've at least at least seen one of his um really nice. I don't know if it's an S or not, but it's uh it's a long hood from the I'm guessing early 70s. And it's just gorgeous. It's this nice cream, it's got a gold um, you know, sort of rash guard on the front, really just really tastefully done. And I remember sitting and just staring at it for 10 or 20 minutes. I had never seen anything like it. And it wasn't David that came up, it was someone else that just started asking me about the car, and I just had this realization that man, like everyone's actually pretty normal. Yeah, certainly they're like any any part of any culture, there's gonna be elitism to it. But yeah, what I experienced almost out of the gate was the complete opposite. And the more I learned about it, it's you've got everything from young kids to old guys to women interested in this, and it all of a sudden became very attainable in my mind very quickly, and one thing led to another, and I got the car that I have now.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

And how did you how did you where did you find it? Where did why did you pick that one? Uh beautiful car.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Yeah, thank you. Uh I did it the way. And the color too.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Sorry to interrupt you, but the color is just gorgeous.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

I think if I had to do it again, I wouldn't be as prescriptive about the color, but truly the color was one of those things where I like, I don't want white, black, or guards red, I want something different. And I had read somewhere that 89, 87 to 89 was sort of the sweet spot of the G body. And that's what I was interested in. So I was very prescriptive. Um did it the old school way where someone in LA connected me to someone in Miami who some who then connected me back to someone in LA who then connected me to the owner of this car. Uh went for a test drive, gave her a price the next day, and made the deal a day after that. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Yeah. Amazing. So you know, pre-bring a trailer, it never hit the forums. Like it was the way this stuff used to happen.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

And at the time, were you taking pictures of cars or I was, yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

But that was more of a, you know, see a cool car on the street. I think if I recall correctly, I had purchased a Fujifilm X Pro 2 prior to getting the car. So I had, you know, jumped into the shallow end of photography with the Fujifilm and you know, just walked around LA and took interesting pictures of cars. One of the early photo books that really resonated with me was Langston Clay's Cars 1974 to 1976. He I don't know if you've seen it or had it. Um really cool in-situ photographs of cars at night parked in Manhattan and Hoboken in the outer boroughs. And it's all cars of the era, you know, the 70s Cadillacs, super long boats. It's just wonderful color. I it's it was a book that transformed at least my early understanding of the medium. So that's I was doing my version of that in LA.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

And car culture is very different on the East Coast. When you were on the East Coast, would you ever were there car meets that you went to?

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yeah, I'd go to I'd go to meetups like Friday nights in Connecticut. Um, there's a road, sort of like one of our small highways, the Berlin Turnpike, where it's you know, it's a strip, so people would drag uh light to light. And so I remember Fast and Furious. Yeah, dude. It's like it's funny to think about what this world used to be like pre-social media and that version of you know the get-togethers that happen around LA. Um it was it it was not at the time, but today I would almost call it innocent. Yeah, you know, it was eight to fifteen guys getting together in a McDonald's parking lot, you get a burger, you get a shake, you hang out, and then you just cruise the strip. And I wasn't participating, but I would go look at the WRX STIs and JDM was such a huge part of the culture back then. All the CRXs, the civics, what Supras, every every so often you'd see one of those show up.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

When did you become more intentional about your car photography?

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Um, getting the car was then became this this merging of these two worlds. And so early on as I was learning the car through just driving it and being around it, I would always take the camera out. And so where I looking back where things started was, you know, I'd take the car out for an early morning drive up Encinal and some of the other roads. This is middle of the pandemic, so we were the only one out there. I could stop wherever and take some photographs of the car. And so that's and that would then get posted to social media, and it was early enough that you know that those those photographs actually like went somewhere. And so that then connected me pretty quickly to a lot of other people in the in the community.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

So take me back to when you were the the first time you showed up with your Porsche and you were like you had something that other people were like, ooh, look at this.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Yeah. It was probably one of those one of those car meets. Um I forget which one it would have been. I always get asked about the color. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Yeah, because it is pretty No, but take me back to that feeling when you were like, now I am participating, I'm not just uh a viewer.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

This it's funny because it was this immense feeling of pride to be in a club versus to be an outsider watching the club. Now I don't feel that way. I don't think it's because it's become second nature and it's just now we all know each other as people versus hey, that's the color of your car or the car that you own. Um now there's almost this like I actually have a little bit of a resistance to the cars and coffee culture. Not because I don't enjoy it, not because I don't enjoy the people. I mean quite the opposite. Like I actually love showing up and mostly just like leaving the car and almost forgetting that it's there and then going to hang out with people that I haven't seen in a while. Yeah. I just, you know me, the the way I connect with the vehicle is anywhere but a parking lot. It is, you know, it's down a dirt road somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico or Utah, Nevada. Um, I just have this love of getting out there and using the car as a literal tool versus an art object. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

I really enjoy your blog.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Oh, thank you, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

When did when did you start writing? When did you start being intentional about putting it out into the world?

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Yeah. Writing's always been really difficult for me. I remember growing up, I loved math and science and physics and chem and English was I just did not like it. Um I don't and I don't know why, because like when I start writing, I actually really enjoy. Enjoy the creative process of taking a couple of ideas and how do you synthesize in a in a meaningful way to yourself? And I would also say that, you know, you and I talking about getting together for this prompted a lot of soul searching and thinking. And one of the things I I've this is my own version of what it means to be an artist, but you know, art first and foremost, I think has to be for the artist. It it should exist absent a platform, absent an audience, you or I or whomever is creating has this innate need that there's a feeling or a thought inside that needs to be expressed outside. And what's your chosen medium to do that? And photography has long been that. But I think the more I've been in the allied cultural ecosystem, the more people I meet that are into poetry. Like some of my friends are into poetry. I've always kind of been interested in it, but it was almost like permission to say, all right, like lean into that, like write your own poetry or read poetry by others. So I forget the question. It might have been like when did the writing come about?

SPEAKER_02 23:09

So there's there's writing, there's journaling, and then there's putting it out into the world. So you know, now knowing how reluctant you were to write and maybe your confidence wasn't really there, when did you decide that this is something you needed to put out into the world?

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Yeah. I think Instagram falling off in the way it did gave me permission to be like, F it, who's gonna see this anyways? Right. Just write it. Uh what do you what do you mean by Instagram falling off? So I pigeonholed myself early on into Porsche specific photography. Like if you go back a couple years, that's all the page is gonna be. And I woke up feeling like the only thing I could post was vintage Porsche photography. That's what the community knew me as. Right. The lane I had chosen. And it wasn't uncommon for me to, you know, have photos, singular photos, not carousels, just photos reach, you know, 700, 1000, 5,000 likes. I remember at one point one went up to 30,000. Wow. Which these days it's like nothing, you know, it's less it's a real, it's like you're not getting that much exposure. Um, and over the last couple of years, I mean, a you know, a quote unquote productive photograph is reaching, you know, a hundred people in terms of like engagement. It might go, you know, broader than that in terms of the views, but I think I had this enlightening that was a very emotional time for me as a creative because I had defined myself by the worth of the product as driven by the social media interaction. Right. And so when that fell off, I had a lot of soul searching around like, well, what am I doing wrong? Um, do I need to change what I produce, how I produce? And there was probably 18 months of ups, downs, I'm gonna quit, I'm not gonna do this anymore. To let's try it again, to landing in this place where, you know, to me, it's just a distribution outlet now. Yeah, it gains exposure grade. If it doesn't, who cares? I don't do it professionally. So that that freeing of caring or converting to more, hey, use this as a as a medium for expression. Yeah. That then gave me license to say, okay, I I want to write with photographs. Um, I want to post stuff that isn't cars. Um, that then eventually led to I think where it is to now and I have a better relationship with it.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

But what you just said kind of contradicts what you previously said about the art needs to be for the artist and not for the people. So is that when you realize that? Um because it sounds like you were discouraged from the engagement, not necessarily what you were shooting.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Yes if I'm hearing you right. You know, you you are hearing me right, and that's the right that's the right call out. I think this this belief that art is for the artist happened after losing as much engagement.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

And that was like the the come to Jesus moment around like Brendan, why are you doing this in the first place? Right. You should only be doing it. You should only wake up early and go make a photograph if you want to. You shouldn't do it because you post it to a platform under the false promise that you'll get engagement from it.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Yeah. And what do you what do you hope to accomplish with the blog? Is that is it like um is it a a kind of like a diary that is open to the world, or is it something that you're doing uh just to kind of um go deeper with your photography?

SPEAKER_03 26:58

I think it's I think it's the latter. Um it what resonates to me most the more I the more I photograph is because they're very personal, your your yeah, your entries. They are and and and some of it is almost me grappling with internal emotions around photography or differ or a different subject. And it's cathartic to actually share that somewhere publicly versus just you know keeping a diary by my bedside that never sees the day of light. It probably makes it probably makes it more real to me. Yeah. And there's a separate part of me that really enjoys pairing a photograph with a piece of writing. Weirdly, I love singular photographs. I mean, I'll I'll go to a photography museum and spend three hours there just looking at a photograph, but the way I personally relate to the medium most through my work has evolved into a spot where I enjoy it as almost the rosebud. The photograph becomes the rosebud for the writing, which was always going to be beside the point, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think every photographer should have a blog. I when after reading your blog, I was like, man, it's um it almost should be an obligation to do this because it's uh it's very easy to just take pictures and put them out to the world and be like, hey, you know, whatever you think is whatever you think.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

But to be able to formulate your thoughts and to do it quickly too, because you need to be in the moment, you know, and to get those thoughts out on paper and then also to go back and read and see where you were. Is that something that you do?

SPEAKER_03 28:54

It it is, and the blog is pretty sparsely populated because I go through either, you know, it's either work is pretty busy or life becomes busy, but sheepishly it's been like a once-a-year post that I need to change.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

So but I'm so glad we're having this conversation because it is an impetus for me to serious like actually say no, like like let's spend some serious time doing this. Um, I absolutely will go back and read. And I I think it's important for anyone who's creative. It's like go back and look at your old work. Why was it relevant then? Yeah, what's relevant now? What's the through line through all of that? Why is it changed if it's changed? It's really fun to I think of photography almost like jazz because you know, there's this concept of the jazz standard. Like Chet plays, you know, one of his most famous funny Valentine songs. Other artists play that, and it's so cool to listen to them back to back, and it's this conversation that happens amongst artists in a specific medium of practicing together. And so, not that I'm comparing what I do to anything. No, I understand. But but it but it's really fun to make a photograph and then go backwards in time through some of your own favorite photographers or use it as a launch point to learn about new things and say, like, how does this how does this piece of work in a very specific moment in time translate backward to a time period where so much of what we have today, digitally, socially, etc., didn't exist. I like that's that's a very specific part of the medium that I really enjoy. And I've got like specific examples that I'm just blown away by it sometimes in terms of like stuff that I work on and much more um accomplished photographers have done historically.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yeah. Yeah, you bring up jazz. The one thing I love about the art of jazz is that, you know, in any other genre of music, if somebody does somebody else's song, it's a cover. But in jazz, it was like, no, uh, this is my interpretation of this beautiful, you know, notes that you put together. This is like my interpretation of it. And then there'll be like, I think like dance hall and reggae does that too, but they I just love how they're like, oh, you have this song? Well, great, I'm gonna do it too, but I'm just gonna tweak it, you know. And nobody's like, hey man, that's that guy's song. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, you know, Charlie Parker's got this version, Duke Ellington's got this version, and it's just like it, and it's it's just all it's just more, you know, love for the world for people to appreciate and the ability for different artists from different groups to then cross-pollinate.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Um I forget who the pianist for Coltrane was Tyner McCoy or McCoy Tyner. You know, then he has his solo work. Um and and just like people are allowed to express themselves through a body of work as individuals and together. Like that, that to me, there's like a lot of corollaries to to photography with that.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so your your day job is in finance.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Okay. And how and this is one thing I love to talk about because a lot of people feel like, you know, with their photography, it has to pay the bills and it they put all this pressure on them when it, you know. I I always tell younger people or people that are just starting out, you know, they're like, oh, I just want to quit my day job and do photography. I'm like, don't do that. Don't know. Don't put that pressure on yourself, you know. Like just, you know, if you get to the point where you can quit your day job, amazing. But don't, you know, and it's it's something that you can do hand in hand, you know?

SPEAKER_03 32:51

It it is. It is for sure. I mean, kudos to anyone that does that. And I've got some buddies who are full-time professional photographers, they are extremely excellent at it. It was tough before AI, my sense is it's only getting tougher to be, you know, commercially successful.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Like rightly or wrongly, when you when you introduce commercialization into a creative process, it completely, I I think my belief is, and I've experienced this, it completely changes your relationship to that creation as sort of the creator and the artist. So yeah, I'm I'm a big fan of it's totally okay to have a nine to five or a eight to whatever. And for your passion, don't call it a side hustle. Just call it, you know, your purpose, you know, right? Work pays work pays the bills and puts food on the table. And then when you can, you build up this well of creativity that needs to be expressed, and you do it through XYZ outlet. So I'm I'm on board with you. I know others take different views. And man, I applaud anyone that actually says, jump out of the plane without a parachute. Like we're we're doing this. Like that is hugely heroic in my mind.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

And how do you is there a balance between the two worlds? Are they completely separate worlds? Do people from your finance world know about your photography?

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Pretty separate. Like I really live what I think is a double life. Um, very few, there are a small handful of professional colleagues who candidly have become more friends than anything else that know about my photography and um more after this pod, but like very few people in the photography world or like outside of work know that that's a part of my life.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yeah. Yeah. And but like, you know, you're super stylish, you got the car. When you show up, are they like, oh, that's a Brandon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

At work. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm definitely a bit of a misfit.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Like most most most people are clean shaven.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

And uh yeah, sometimes I feel like the janitor that's wandered in, you know, to the boardroom or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Um and I wanted to bring up, you know, I was reading you one of your entries. Uh you mentioned, and I'm gonna butcher it here, but you mentioned something about you're starting to feel an emptiness in just shooting cars. Is that am I getting that right?

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah, no, that's spot on.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Okay, we want to expand on that.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah. It's funny when I hear you say it sounds like a very hot take. Um but that's my job. But yeah. But it but it's but it's true. And man, it's like so I'll I'll describe it from my own perspective. And what I'm about to say is no knock against anyone who that is their passion. Sure, sure. And spends their time doing that and is making books about it. I mean, I I love I love reading that stuff. One of my favorite photo books is auto auto something. It's it's in a stack back there, and I and I love it, and it's this hor historical retrospective on cars through the ages. Um I I think that the emptiness is maybe a bit of a self-imposed box that I put myself in. And it is driven by a question that I ask myself, what is what is this work contributing to a broader canon of of work? And for some reason, photographs of cars, just cars in succession, no longer, I no longer personally believe is is adding anything. Um, and the best example I could give is like I've thought about eventually I'd love to make my own, you know, photography book. Um and I've thought about it. It would be, it would be pretty easy for me over the course of a month to pull 150 black and white images of Porsches in, you know, doing whatever, driving down dirt roads out in the middle of a field somewhere, like in situ being used as tools. I could kind of do that with my eyes closed. The I hopefully this won't offend anyone. I don't want to produce that work and to have the wife of a dude who owns a GT3RS, because that's the thing that he's supposed to own, to buy him that book after a Google search. He looks at it for a day and then it collects dust. Right. Like my the the work I want to produce, even if it only sells a hundred copies. I want someone to pick it up and say, I feel something. I feel, I actually feel something about this, or this is going to encourage me to go explore a new place or talk to a person I otherwise wouldn't have talked to, ask myself deep questions. So that's maybe a long way, but a long way of explaining why the car stuff maybe feels a bit more empty to me today, because I'm I'm kind of thinking forward on what am I what am I striving for and what am I trying to build. Right. Yeah. Do you feel like it's become too much of your identity? That too. I mean, for sure. And that was like like like we talked about, there was a huge recognition of loss that came with that. I felt I felt identity-less for a long period of time when Instagram stopped being what I thought it was supposed to be when I was making pictures of cars.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Why don't you take more portraits? Uh laziness. Because you just port you just posted one uh recently, and I was like, wow, there's no car here. It's a great portrait. Uh there's there's a lot of um it's just a great picture.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah, thank you. Uh well, I'll there's a two-part maybe question. Self-portraits, it might just be laziness. Like I I get annoyed having to set up a tripod and put things on a timer and like run back and forth. Um portraits, I really love taking portraits. I have always been really self-conscious about going up to a stranger and interrupting them and saying, Hey, can I make a photograph of you? And I personally it's like a goal to push that boundary. So that kid that I found at the skate park the other night when I was down there, I might have contemplated for 10 minutes do I go up and ask him or not? Like, like I'm not joking. And then I got to the point of like Brennan, just put one foot in front of the other and go do it. Um but like I I feel very self-conscious about that, which is why it's always been easier for me to photograph non-people.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah. But and in your community, do you feel the obligation if you want to take a portrait of somebody that their car also has to be included? Somewhat.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Like, somewhat. But again, I try to I try to really draw a line between like Brennan, ask yourself the honest question: are you including the car because you think that is going to resonate on Instagram? Are you including a car because that is part of the individual's identity in that relationship is what you want to capture with the with the camera. And I'm I'm trying to air towards the latter, but man, it's like so hard to avoid the former.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah. Um, I also saw on your social that you did something that I've never done before, but I've I've always wanted to do. You uh you went to like a photography meetup. Yeah. Yep. Well, does that is that like is that something you do? Was that the first time you did it?

SPEAKER_03 40:48

First time I did it. And again, it was like I'm self-conscious. I feel like photography is a very solitary practice. Uh, you know, it that's literally just what it is. Um, and I enjoy that. I'm very introverted, so I enjoy nothing more than being alone with my camera. Um but again, in terms of just trying to push myself along the boundaries of comfort. Um, Dave Herring, I don't know if you follow him.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

He's really I do now, after after you post. Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Yeah, he's a really cool guy from the Bay Area. Um he was down with another guy and just posted on Instagram, like, hey, we're gonna be here at this time. Meet up if you want to. And there's maybe 20 of us and kicked around the skate park. I didn't talk to all 20, I talked to a number of people. Um, and it was cool. It was fun. That's awesome. Yeah. Um, did you know him before? Uh, I had I knew I we had interacted on Instagram a little bit. I had he's a big Leica guy, or was I think he's he's branched out. He's still a big Leica guy. I had been making the move from Fuji, and so I had pinged him a couple of questions. So that was like the extent of our interaction.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

And I saw that um, you know, in your blog you talk about uh, you know, blurry photographs, and you have some blurry photographs. Um is film something that you're gonna explore?

SPEAKER_03 42:14

You know what's really interesting. I thought so. Uh one of my good buddies has a cool half-frame camera. So I picked one up off eBay earlier this year. It literally took me five months to finish one role. That's how infrequent I grab for it. And it's almost like this, you know, recognition that you need to force yourself in that direction because digital comes so naturally for me. And I thought I was really gonna get into not looking at the photograph until it was developed and getting the scans back and just the gritty rawness of the film. And I I don't know if I'm being honest, there was something that spoke to me, but maybe not in the way that I was expecting. Right. Yeah, and it might be half it might be the half-frame experience. Like I've seen some wonderful work off of um M6 MP bodies that I'm like, holy crap, that's like a yeah, that's a beautiful photograph. Um, so maybe, maybe I go more medium format or 35 mil for film, but yeah, for some reason, I just don't reach for the reach for the film stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I think if you if Oh, sorry, no.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

I was gonna say, I treat the one thing I like about Leica, like Leica gets so much flack out there. One of the things, and you can do this with any digital camera. One of the things I like about the way I use it is I will take a bunch of photographs and I I never look at the result in situ. If I'm if I've been hired to do something, I will absolutely I would argue argue like the M is a horrible work camera. Um, if you've got like client expectations, but that's the only time that I'll kind of like quote unquote pixel peep in the back uh to make sure things are in focus and what have you. But otherwise, like When you and I take Ether road trips and stuff like that, I'll shoot three days worth of stuff. I have no idea what I shot until I get home. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

The one way I like to shoot my film camera now is I I'll bring it with me and then when I shoot digital, I'll pull out if I s if there's something I really like, especially if I'm taking portraits of somebody. I was just taking portraits the other day, and I'll have my uh my Sony, my digital, but then when I get a really nice shot and I see the light is is something that I really enjoy, I'll take the film camera out and just go click and then I'll put it away. Yeah. And then I'll keep shooting with my my digital. So then I have the digital, and then when I finally do print it, it's like this beautiful collage of things I've shot in the last couple months.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

That's that's what I think. Do you allow those two mediums to interact with each other when you print? Like is there intentional.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

If I print, if I print, I only print film.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

Oh, really? You don't print your digital work? No.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

No way. Okay. And if I if I'm printing something and I'm I'm like uh the book I did on Old Place, it's it's all film. If I want to print something that, you know, for myself or something if I have a show or something like that, I usually only print uh film. Wow, why is that? It just feels more intentional. It feels uh I look at it more as a painting as opposed to a photograph.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Yep. I you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

And I say that, but I also was in a group show where it was uh it was a group show um where the the subject was Mexico and I printed a shot that was digital. So I'm I'm actually contradicting what I say. But if I have a show, I think it's just it just makes it more special. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

I for me, I totally it makes it a little bit more special. And I love to hear you say that. Um and you're also your your description of painting. Have you seen um Jason Momoa's on the r on the realm?

SPEAKER_02 45:56

I haven't.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

You know, I'm really I I'm you gotta there's so much stuff out there to watch.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Yeah, and I just it's a kind of like it's like a drug for me. Like if I see something and I like it and there's multiple episodes of it, I just get lost, man. Yeah. And you know, next thing I know, it's two o'clock in the morning and my routine's all right.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Dude, it's it's it's so good. I think that I think he's come out with a second season. I don't know how much we time we have left, but I'll I'll take you down a little bit if I can, if you can indulge me. So going back to formative moments, um, I'm big into photography books. We have more now than our our home can hold. They're shoved in closets. And um, it it is just nothing. I love nothing more than to buy a new piece of work to understand a photographer. And then one of my guilty pleasures is like waking up at 5:30 on a Saturday or Sunday. I got like an hour, hour and a half to myself with a cup of coffee, and it's just like go go in. Um one of the first books I bought myself was not a photography book per se. It was a bit more of like a retrospective by aperture on uh Todd Haido. And I had I never knew who he was. Um and I think he grew up, he grew up in Ohio, it was either Cincinnati or Cleveland. Really cool background as a kid. He started um going back to like how did you how did you first interact with a camera? Like he was a BMXer growing up, and so he took uh photos of himself and other kids' neighborhood kids on their BMXs.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Love it.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Uh that then evolved into what he's become today. And your description of a photograph as a painting. So I'll link this in a moment. Um, I love Todd's work. We actually just bought, I'll post it to Instagram at some point uh earlier this year, what I would consider to be my first true fine art piece to hang on a wall, and it's and it's one of Todd's photographs. Oh, nice, nice. And uh Jay, Jason Momoa, I think it's either the first or second episode, loves Todd Haido as well. I only found this out years after I started to develop a love for him and his work. And Jason Momoa, he's like a five-year-old kid meeting Santa Claus when he meets it's all uh it's all filmed. And he a couple of times proclaims um that he has Todd Haido paintings. Now they're photographs, but that's like the joyous expression that he exclaims that. And then I look at Todd's work and I'm like, yeah, I actually see paintings here way more than a photograph. Um it's just it's very cool how you can characterize a piece of work as almost something other than itself based on this how it's produced, in your case, film that's gonna look a bit more like painting at the end of the day. And like I just I love that about the medium.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

That's amazing the other thing for me, um, just thinking about it is, you know, with digital, when I shoot it, I have to manipulate it. I don't manipulate it much, but I do play with it. It could go black and white, you know, I can the contrast to this to that. But when I shoot film like this picture here, I don't it it it's I don't touch it.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Like I might mess with the contrast just a little bit because of the scan, but I don't it it it it comes out the box the way it is. Yeah, you know? And somebody was over the other day and they asked me, like, oh, is that a painting? And I was like, no, it's actually a photograph. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

Dude, I I love it. And and I also, despite being, you know, lean having leaned digital, I try not to play around with stuff too much either. Like actually, editing is one of my least favorite parts of the whole process. Right. One of the things that I felt like I had license to do after reading this aperture book on Todd Haido was that I could, I almost felt permitted to start playing around with some of the color gradients in the saturations, because I hope I'm not incorrect on this. I think Todd does as well. Like he's not gonna completely change the tone of a scene, but if he shoots a photograph through his car window, which is a lot of what he does, and he's kind of he wants the end product to be reflective of the feeling he had at that moment in time, which may mean that he actually has to play around with some of the coloration and the saturation and stuff like that. And that's something that I've always wanted to. It's like you want to photograph a feeling, you want to photograph what it was like to be there versus where you were. And so I hate that this is the case, but seeing a quote unquote professional do something then gave me license to operate in a bit of a similar way.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Absolutely, you know, and and I just want to be clear like manipulate all you want. I have no issues there, and I'm not even talking to you, I'm talking to anybody. And I remember uh I was working with a young photographer on a project and we were shooting video, but he asked me, he was picking my brain about photographs, and he was talking about like, you know, um, you know, how do I manipulate them? And you know, he's looking for his style. And I was like, dude, open up Lightroom and play with the presets and see what you like. And he was like, Oh, I thought that was a big no-no. I was like, there's no fucking no-nos, man. I was like, pick a preset you like, and if you like that, then start manipulating from there and then just go from there. And he he felt like you could see the relief from him. And I was like, dude, this isn't there's no rules. Like, you know, if you if you take a digital picture and you can manipulate it to the point you add grain, you add this, you add that, and somebody thinks it's film, bravo.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

People have literally reached out and said, Hey, we want to show this work, you know, with film work. And I'm like, great, but it's not. So you know, like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

So where uh where do you go from here with your photography?

SPEAKER_03 52:03

Oh man, that's such a good that's such a good question. I think because it's not a day job, I have the luxury to almost go anywhere, which then, you know, restrictions breed creativity and restrictions breed actual, you know, moving down the train track. So sometimes I feel a little bit like I'm I stand still because I don't know which way which direction I want to head. I I genuinely do want to create a book of work at some point. I have ideas. I have not really gone down each one of those paths to fully explore that. Right now I'm actually sort of enjoying just the ideation phase. Um I I really enjoy kind of taking it as it comes. Like it's been it's been a very quiet period for most of the year. And in the last month, I've I'll I'll install work at a buddy's restaurant coming up, which will be fun. Um, I'll participate in a little pore show next month. I'll do a client shoot in September, magazine contribution towards the end of the year. So I try to be pretty organic with it. Um I honestly, like what you sort of mentioned uh 20 minutes ago, like us talking about the writing, that's probably where I spend my time is just going through old work and using it as the inspiration for some writing, producing new work, not under the guise of writing, but like the work being the germination for what might be written with it.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Um, I might be going down another rabbit hole here. And um if this is too personal, you don't have to talk about it. But um, I've had a lot of loss in my life, and that has changed my perspective on a lot of things. And you mentioned, and the only reason I'm saying this is because you put it out there in the world. You mentioned that you had a health scare.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Um, you don't necessarily have to say what that was, but how how did that change your perspective on life and your art in general?

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Yeah, I won't I won't get into specifics um sort of a health scare in the family. Man, I mean, it brought to the forefront how important family is, for sure. Um and I've always known that, but like when you're confronted with the loss of someone that's always been in your life, you that you haven't yet lost, but then immediately you understand that there there is a point in time. Um for all of us. Yeah. It it it was, you know, facing mortality. I love, I've always loved Anthony Bourdain. I have a complex relationship with him. You know, he doesn't know me, but my own relationship to the idea of him. Yeah. And the way Roadrunner starts. If you haven't seen Roadrunner, you gotta watch that. Oh is that a movie or is that yeah. All right. Skip skip on the room for now. Yeah. And then in the next week, watch Roadrunner. Okay. Um, and it's about his life and who he was and what he became.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Um, is it the documentary?

SPEAKER_03 55:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Oh, you know, I've seen it. But there's okay. All right.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

I've seen it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

It's a HBO documentary.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

All right, cool.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

So you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

So it starts off, and it's I'm pretty sure it starts off, and it he says, you know, it's contemplative to think about death a couple of minutes every day. And I that's that's probably what I've done is is think about mortality and what it means for loved ones to no longer be here someday, what it means for you to no longer be here someday. And it immediately crystallizes like, hey, if man, if you want to do something, and that's a voice that's been burning inside you for years, like, man, go go do it. Like you owe it to yourself to go do something that you've always wondered about. Um, and and so to go full circle with that, the the idea of a body of work, even if it's only seen by a hundred people and I lose thousands of dollars on it, um, that probably becomes something I start working towards over the next decade. Like I'm gonna give myself a long time to make sure that I'm saying the right things in the way I want to say them, but um that's probably the biggest thing that's come out of it.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Um last question. I I I asked um most of my guests what their interpretation of Shu Wisely is. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

Um my interpretation would be act with intention. And it's a it's a the smallest of small physical commitments to bring a camera up to your eye to shoot. But it's a commitment nevertheless. It's more a mental and emotional commitment to be present to a scene or what's happening around you to then make a photograph. And in a world in which attention, I mean, my own attention span has dropped, I hate this, precipitously over the last, you know, couple of years for all the reasons everyone knows about. Um I I equate being intentional next to almost like a religious experience because every you know, noise shuts out, there's no distractions, you are there for a person or a scene or a subject. And so act with intention is is probably uh how I interpret the message.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

Awesome. I love that, man.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Um, and then lastly, just tell us where we're gonna see your work. You said you're gonna be in a restaurant, you said you have a Porsche show coming out. Where were the details?

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um the restaurant is Les Comptois in uh K Town. Uh really good buddy Gary, Gary Menez, who's in the Porsche community. That's how we got connected. Um, he invited me to show some of my work. Uh we he and I had a big dialogue before. I said, listen, if we're gonna do this, I it it doesn't probably not gonna be Porsche. There's one photograph of a Porsche on there. Otherwise, it's gonna be some of the road trip stuff that I've produced. And he's been so gracious um in opening up the space for me to be able to show that work. So that'll probably get installed in the next couple of weeks. Uh Pure86 Barbershop here in Venice on Lincoln is gonna be having a Porsche specific show beginning of August. Nice. We'll have a little bit of work for that. Um other projects are a bit more one-off, but yeah, that's the that's the local topical stuff that's coming up.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Awesome, man. Yeah, awesome. Well, Brendan, I really appreciate your time. It's been an amazing conversation.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

Thank you. I've enjoyed this conversation. I felt I feel like I didn't get even to half of what I wanted to say. So we'll just have to have a second episode then. I would love a second episode because like I said, it's talking about cars and photography. And I've just, I mean, I've known you for what, probably a year, maybe 12 months, I think is when you and I forgot.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

I think uh I think we met uh the first, I think it was either I think it was the first Porsche rally, it was probably a yeah, I guess it was a year. I thought it was a couple years, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

I guess we met uh period of time, but man, I just in getting to know you, I've I've really respected your your worldview and the things we've talked about have felt very real and honest. And I love that. Like, not to bring it back to what do you love about the West Coast, I feel like there's an honesty. Uh it it can be brutal sometimes, but there's like an honesty and an openness in the environment here that once you find people it takes a while, but like once you find a group of people you connect with, it's like you really get to start to understand a person, and that then fuels for me a lot of the create creativity. Um thank you, man. I appreciate that. Likewise. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

Awesome, man. Um this has been great because it's it's interesting because you know we could have easily had this conversation on the side of the road, like, but it's uh the one thing I really love about this podcast is just trapping somebody in a seat and giving me an hour of their time and letting them pick their brain. And that's why it's not an interview to me, it's just a conversation. Yeah, you know. I love it. And that's that's what I love about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

Yeah. And and you're right, like it could happen on the side of the road, but you know just as well. It's like you're you're there for 15 minutes and then you're hopping back in cars and you're you're on to the next waypoint. Um, so I really enjoy this. Like I feel like I could talk to you for another couple of hours, so we got to do it again at some point. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

Is there is there anything that you really wanted to touch on that you weren't able to touch on?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

I don't no, I don't think so. Uh we'll save it for next time then. Yeah, we could save it for next time. Or side of the road. Or or a side of the road somewhere. Somewhere with no sell signal where we don't know where it is, preferably.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for listening to Shoe Wisely. If you found something in this conversation that inspired you, moved you, or made you think a little differently, please share it with someone who might need to hear it. Your support means a lot and it truly helps the show grow. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, and leave a review or comment on your favorite podcast platform. Those small actions make a big difference and help more people discover these conversations. I'm your host, Amir Bahimi. And remember, create with intention, live with curiosity, and always shoot wisely.