16 Bart Kuykens - Car and Portrait Photographer

Exploring Photography, Cars, and 

Cultures with Bart Kuykens.

Delve into the world of visual storytelling, automotive passion, and cultural insights with renowned photographer Bart Kuykens. This episode uncovers his approach to photography, car culture, and the significance of authenticity in art.Main Topics:

• Bart's journey from modeling and casting to professional photography
• The art of shooting film versus digital and the philosophy behind it
• Cultural nuances of Europe versus the US and perspectives on minimalism
• Insights into the Porsche and Ferrari worlds, and the psychology of collecting
• The influence of AI in art creation and the future of photography
• The importance of connection, authenticity, and shooting wisely

In this episode:

• Bart shares how his early experiences with his father sparked his love for photography (0:00)
• The decision to shoot film on purpose: embracing imperfections and mood (8:46)
• The evolution of his career from modeling to running a casting agency, then to car photography (8:53)
• The culture of minimalism in Europe versus consumerism in the States (3:09)
• The creative process behind his books and unconventional projects (43:16)
• How shooting in black and white and in different cities captures mood and authenticity (48:03)
• The value of connection over ego when working with celebrities and clients (59:17)
• Future aspirations with Tokyo, AI-generated art, and exploring new genres (71:56)
• “Shoot less, think more” – Bart's advice on capturing moments wisely (73:46)

Timestamps: 00:00 - Bart Kuykens introduction and background 08:46 - The philosophy of shooting film and embracing character 16:10 - The impact of early family photography stories 24:48 - The thrill of collectors’ cars versus happiness with one vehicle 43:16 - Self-publishing photography books: process and challenges 48:03 - Shooting Miami in black and white and cultural choices 52:03 - Transition from Porsche to Ferrari photography 55:37 - The importance of genuine human connection in shoots 66:15 - Collaborating with AI artist David Galstein 73:46 - Shoot Wisely: Focus, minimalism, and passion in photographyResources & Links:

• Bart Kuykens Website
• Anton Corbijn Photography
• Saul Leiter's Early Color
• Jay Leno's Car Collection

Connect with Bart:

• Instagram

Note: This episode is a rich blend of personal stories, technical insights, and philosophies that invite you to shoot wisely, embrace imperfections, and stay curious.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Shoot Wisely, the Content Creators Podcast. I'm your host, Amir Bahimi. With over 25 years of production experience, as a documentarian, my cameras have taken me across this country and around this amazing world, capturing and telling stories. The Shoot Wisely Podcast is a conversation with fellow storytellers with the goal to inspire. Today's guest is photographer Bart Kirkins, a Belgian artist known for his raw, cinematic, black and white images shot entirely on film. He's the creator of a claim book series, A Flat Six Love Affair, where he documents the deep connection between Porsche owners and their cars, turning automotive culture into something much more human and emotional. In a time where everything is fast and digital, Bart has stayed committed to analogue, embracing grain, imperfection, and atmosphere to tell stories that feel timeless. Beyond cars, his work spans portraiture, music, and culture. But at the core of it all is a focus on authenticity and connection. This is a conversation about slowing down, finding your voice as a photographer, and building a body of work that actually means something. Please welcome Bart Kirkins. Tell us where you are right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Right now I'm in Antwerp. I'm home, which is which is Belgium, Antwerp. This is where I my family is, my two kids, my wife, they're all here. And from here I travel to wherever I have to go. But this is my base camp.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah. And for people that haven't been there, which probably most people that are listening to this, what is what is it like there?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Well, it's it's it's Europe, of course. Um, so it's a little bit different than than than than the states. But um yeah, other than that, it's Belgium is a small country, um divided in two parts, like the north, which is uh we call Vlanderen, and in the south, which is called uh Ballonia. And the other speak French, and we in the north we speak Dutch. Um, so that's a big big difference between the two parts of Belgium. Um, this is a small country of like 10, I think nine, ten, eleven million people, something like this. Um, so it's not not too big, uh, but very central in in Europe, which means everybody has to basically drive through Belgium. If you want to go from let's say Germany to France, uh Netherlands to France, um, you have to pass by uh Belgium. So that's an interesting uh place for me to live because I'm if I take the train, I'm in two hours in London, two hours Paris, one hour Amsterdam, one hour, Germany. But yes, fine. And if you want to fly, like one hour, it's in you're in Oslo in one hour in Norway, you're uh in Milan in one hour.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Um everything so so close.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Spain, two hours, Portugal, two hours, two hours fifty minutes, or something like this. So it's very central. So uh yeah, for you guys, it's it's all very very close to each other. I I yeah, I remember people visiting Belgium and the Netherlands and Paris in one day. Like, hey, let's go because we have to go. So that's weird. But um, yeah. No, I still think Belgium is a is a great and especially I love Antwerp. It's a great place to live because it's affordable. Um and I don't feel like well, now with the war everything is different, of course, but I I never felt like people are really struggling here. You know, you have a job, so that means you have enough money to to pay for the rent, to buy your food, and to go on holiday once or two times a year. Um and and yeah, enjoy life. And I visited the States a lot, as you know, and I see a lot of people there like having two jobs uh or really struggling um to make ends meet. And and I I think for Europe, uh well, it might change now because with all the shit that been has been going on. Yeah, but um I always felt like it's for me, it always has been a great place to live. Uh and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, and it correct me if I'm wrong, but you you also it seems like you come from a culture that isn't really dependent on excess.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Yeah. So people have what they need and they're very happy that way.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah. Well, there's always people who want more, and and and and this human nature, but I mean the big difference with with with I think with Europe and the states is that in the states I I know so many people then they have like three, four, five, six cars. Uh unless you unless you're a collector, that's something different. But like me, like a normal family having four or five cars, and why people have one car here or two, and if there's no need to have another one, then they stick with the plan and have two cars. Um, so but yeah, that's that's a little bit different, I think, in the States. Uh, but it I think it's has been always been like this. Um, people live on credit cards in in the States, and while here people well, we've been raised like first, like make the money and then spend the money.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

And then it's a little bit different over there.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

And correct me if I'm wrong, but you uh purchased the home you live in now from your mother, and it's the home that you grew up in, but you made some uh um you made some renovations.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I was born here. Well, not in this house, but I mean I'm in Antwerp. So this is my first house. Uh I always lived here until I was like um I think 18 or something, and then I moved to to another house uh close by, and then I moved to the bigger city. Um uh and you know how it goes, a girlfriend here, and then after a few years, we split up a new place, some hip there. And then um like 14 years ago, my my father passed away. Um, and my mom stayed in the house for like I think four or five months, and then she decided, like, hey, the house is too big, I want to move to a smaller place, like uh smaller apartment, um uh a couple blocks away. And then I decided to move in the house because I'm an only child, so I had no reason to sell the house or whatever. So I bought the house for my mom, and then um yeah, we did the renovations because yeah, we had two kids back at the time. Um and the little one was like one year or something, one year old. Uh so it was a good time to move, move in the house, and then we built I built the garage here, so I had my my little garage slash office slash man cave for me, and then um yeah, another another uh floor. So um, no, it's it's a great place. Like 50 minutes from the city, which is nothing. Uh we have the garden, we have the swimming pool, it's it's a lot of families here with kids, so it's um it's a great place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

How how special is it for you to be raising your family in the home that you were raised in?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

For me, obviously, it's it's it has a lot of m meaning, like uh um um another depth, I you say it. It's it's another another level. A little layer, yeah. Another layer into into into all this. Uh, because my parents live here now, I am living here now. My kids maybe one day we live here. For them, they never really um remember the house as the house of my parents, so for them it it uh it always looked like it likes their house, but uh yeah, of course it's special. And but I was only a child, so it was easy for me to move in the house. So I have two sons now, so at some point, you know, they will have to decide which one will stay in the house, or or they sell it and they go easier wrong way, but you never know, of course. Um but yeah, it's it's it's it's like coming home still. Uh I have the memories here, although you change things, you different paint, you you move around stuff. So I I don't think there's anything from my parents' left here. Um yeah, yeah, the garden uh is a little bit like a tree here and there, which I remember. Oh yeah, but for the rest, it's it's a different place.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

And I saw uh the video um that you to give a uh a pretty extensive tour of your place, and and um you know your attention to detail comes off um quite strongly. Do you have a background in in architectural design or or interior design?

SPEAKER_02 8:32

No, no, not at all. But I always I always liked old stuff, like 60s, 70s, 80s. Um I'm born in 75. Uh me too. Yeah, so 51. So uh 80s for me was like yeah, the the the the best times. Um but I like furniture from like the 70s. I think it it looks great, it's it's it's decent, it's it's quality stuff. Um so I always bought and and and sold like like furniture, um move around stuff a little bit. Um so yeah, I try to give it my own uh personal touch. Um and I prefer to buy something which is a little bit more expensive, but but like old, a good piece, because it keeps a good value if you want to resell it as well. If you buy something cheaper, uh then you might have end ending just throwing it away in the end, so with good pieces. And I and I like the fact that it sometimes has some scratches and some some it has a lot of soul in it, yeah, character. Yeah, it's like when you jump in when you jump in an old in an old 964, for example, they all smell the same. Uh and and and this is with furniture the same. If you have old old seats or the sofa or whatever, um there's this good old smell.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah. Um what so before photography, what was your occupation if if you had one?

SPEAKER_02 10:04

I have a I had a casting agency as well for like 17 years. Oh what agency? Casting. Casting agency.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah, yeah. We had like I started like um 17, 18 years ago. Uh before that, I didn't really have a job. I was like in between studying and doing some modeling here and there, like, but not really like international career or something, just like local. Um and when I was like think 33 or something, I I stopped modeling and I said, okay, I want to do something else. But I had a lot of photographers calling me, like, hey, Bar, you know, we have a job and we're looking for a girl with red hair, whatever, you know, someone said, Yeah, of course I know someone. I I pasted through the number. And after a while, I was thinking, like, hey, I can start an agency, you know, because I know so many people, and they're calling me anyway. I can better ask money for all the work I do. So I started the agency. Um, and then the big shift there was like at some point I had an interview in a magazine, and I told them, and which was not a lie, of course, like everybody is welcome in the agency because we think or I think that everybody is beautiful in its own way. It's not like they have to be like um six food and uh and and and blonde and blue eyes, blah blah blah. This guy, I say everybody's welcome, you know. If you're small, if you're a little bit like chubby, it's all fine because brands will need it as well. And and and so, and from that moment on, it was like booming, like people were like yeah, subscribing, and it was crazy. So at some point we had like 7,000 people in the database. Um, and we had a couple of people working, so I had to open an agency in Amsterdam, I had to open an agency in in Paris, in London, so it was growing and getting bigger, but it came with a lot of um growing pains as well. Um, and in the end, I was not making more money than I was doing it on my own, uh, because there was so much going on, and uh and you had to yeah, you had to pay people working for you and casting directors, and and that was a pain, and I didn't really enjoy it anymore after a while because in the beginning it was like, oh wow, I can work from uh everywhere. I just have my laptop, and they people call me and and or clients call me. But after a while, it was like you know, the thing is when you when you start a business, it's it's like your own baby. Um but as soon as you start with people, for them it's not their baby, for them, it's just like a job, a job, yeah. And they just want to make as much money as possible, yeah. Um with the least effort, which I which I understand as well. But in if you have a casting agency and you have a job like on Monday, uh, and the client booked like three models, and one of them gets sick on a Sunday evening, which is possible, of course, yeah, then you have to go and sit behind the computer and take your phone and start calling around because you need to have three models on a Monday, even if you have to work on a Sunday. But for me, that was okay. It's like, yeah, I'll do it anyway, whatever, because it's my baby. But for them, it was like, hey, it's Sunday evening, and I'm with my girlfriend watching a movie, so we don't pick up the phone anymore. Um, so it was creating a lot of uh stress as well. So I scaled it down again and I said, you know, I'm I'm done with it, and I just want to do it on my own again. Um, which I did for like a couple more years, and then uh COVID kicked in, so yeah, no jobs anymore because every photo shoot was too much people, you know. Um, so and then AI came, uh obviously also changed the the business a little bit. Social media came in. So, you know, if you go back like if you go back 10 years or 15 years, then brands went through an agency for a campaign, and the agency would call the photographer, would call the makeup artist, whatever, and then they would call the casting agency or the model agency, and they say, Hey, we need five people tomorrow for next week. And that was the way it went. But now these days, brands go directly on Instagram and social media and they say, Hey, wow, you have a good face. We have a job tomorrow. Do you want to work for us? And then we pay you like 200 bucks. Like when they go through an agency, then they pay maybe a thousand, and then the agency takes a little bit, and so basically they cut out the middleman. That's what that was a that's what they do. Um, which is fine, which is okay, you know, it's like evolution, I think, as well. Um and at some point I felt like I was like years he he is not not I'm I I felt like I was ahead of the other agencies, so I was working really well and making good money. But after a while, they just they just close the gap. And then if you're not like sharp and like like focused from a day-to-day basis, they just leave you behind, and then you're struggling to to catch up. And it was happening with me. So I had the agency was running, and I thought like, okay, this is gonna this is gonna work for like forever. And I was traveling more and more, doing shooting the books with the cars and and and and answering my mails, not like straight away, but like two days later, and then you lose clients. And so basically I felt like it was like slowly fading out for me in my head.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah, I mean, managing people is is probably one of the most difficult things to do. I wanted to ask you, you know, with it with agencies, usually their their models, they always tell them, Oh, you need to update your headshots or you need some some fresh new pictures. Were you taking advantage of all these people? Not taking advantage, but were you using uh were you shooting portraits for these people or update? Was that how you started doing portrait photography?

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Yeah, no, I never, never, never took a picture of of one of my uh models or talents in my my database, never. Uh I always I always hired a photographer, which I thought he was doing a better job than I did, because most of the shoots were like just like casting shots, like headshots, were like in the most of the time it's like in the studio, and I don't have a studio. Um, so the guy had a studio set up, the lights were set up, people came in just to take the shots and they go home. And I just paid him and it was for me much easier. And he delivered the pictures, I put them in the database, and and that's it. Because I don't really like to take the thing is if I I always shoot outside or or with daylight, yeah. Um, I never carry light with me. Um and I only want to take pictures from people I I want to take a picture of. And this is a problem when you have a costing agency, people walk in and think, oh my god, but maybe I need him for whatever job, or like kids, and the kids and the kids start to cry, and so you have to be it's a different kind of photographer, and I didn't have the patience for that. Um so I'm I'm I'm losing really interest in in what I do if I if I don't feel every morning like this um this um energy uh to go out and shoot, and like, okay, I'm super excited, I want to shoot this guy or the girl or whatever. Um if I don't have that, that it doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah. So you know just going back because I know your story that your father used to take pictures of you, and and I have a very similar story. My this is actually my father's um my my father's hospital, who that actually took pictures of me and would, you know, my brother and I would sit in front of the camera forever while he was trying to figure it out and you know, pretending to smile. And I I saw you know one of your interviews where you have a very similar story. But because of that, I never thought of photography as anything special. I just thought it's what people did. You know, so I never even like I remember when I was 16 and somebody was like, Oh, you have a uh you have a camera, you take pictures. I'm like, I I thought that's what everybody did. Did you have a similar experience?

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah, I had a similar experience with my dad as well because as a as he had a n he had a camera back in the day, it wasn't like a pentax. Um, because he couldn't afford a hassle blad. Hasleblot was like always has been expensive, um, and too complicated, too complicated for my dad as well, because he was like a hobby photographer. Um, but he had a pen tax, and obviously he was shooting on film back in the days, and then at some point he thought he figured it out, and then he yeah, he had to come home because he wanted to take some pictures for me in the garden. But I was like all sweaty and like that. I'm skating with or playing football with my friends, and yeah, yeah, but go up and do a nice shirt for the picture. Oh my god, no. I saw I go up, nice, nice, nice shirt, and then I sit in the garden for like it felt like it was forever, but it was probably a couple of minutes, and then he was trying to figure out with the role, and oh yeah, okay, not like this. And so come on, and he take pictures and my smile. But as you know, taking pictures in your garden never looks like you know, you need for me, you need to travel to see different stuff. So uh, but he did his best, and and yeah, I picked it's not like picked it up from him, but I always had like, okay, there's something magical going on when you take take pictures. Um, and then we used to go on holiday, and then he would like take pictures from everything, right? And then and then you would come home, develop them, and then see them with the family with a projector on a wall.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

With the slides, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Yeah, with the slides, and it looks nice for for yourself but for nobody else. It's like right, it's boring because the thing is with photography, then you go on holiday to France and you see like a big mountain or whatever, and you take a picture and it looks amazing. But when you see the picture at home, it's not amazing anymore because you need to be there to see wow, it's a big mountain, but on picture, it's like to get that uh on a picture, you need to have the yeah, a good eye, a good angle, the right lens for it. Um, and obviously he was not like that um gifted. Uh so but yeah, I always had like my my my father taking pictures around, he really enjoyed that and playing around with it with the cameras, and then obviously after a while, when I got into the modeling uh business, I was amazed by all these photographers having a hustle blood um and shooting on film. So that was for me like yeah, well, you have one. If you look through a hustle blood, that that imagery is like goes, it's like just amazing, like wow, what is this? And then this sound like yeah, yeah, and then developing the film. And I always ask the photographers, hey, can I can I join go in the dark room when you go, you know, develop the film the film, and for me that was like magic, like wow, like you know, and then all of a sudden the picture was there, like boom. Um, and there, there I really got like excited and like hey, I wanna I wanna shoot pictures myself, but I had no clue what I was going to shoot, which is good, I think, because in the beginning you just you just shoot and you see where you go, and then you take pictures from your dog and your mom and your dad and your girlfriend, and you know, uh and then you start traveling, and then it all starts to make sense when you travel and you you capture like um pictures and then you and then all of a sudden you become a photographer, and that was like um weird for me as well because I struggled a couple of years when people asked me, What are you doing? And I had to say, I'm a photographer, it's like sweat in my back, like because it really it never really sounded like a real job.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

So I wanted to ask you what what came first? Your obsession with Porsche's or becoming a photographer?

SPEAKER_02 21:55

No, it it always has been photography for me, uh which I I I always loved the photography more and the cameras more than I loved my car, for example. I I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Um was your dad in the cars? Was your dad in the Porsches?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

No, not at all. No. We we didn't have money to buy to buy Porsches. He was we started with like a Vauxhall, which was a brand they only only made in Belgium, and then he switched to uh Volvo. Um and then after Volvo we we drove like SAP, uh the SAP 900 and and the 9000 for many many years, which I think is a great car, SAP. But um he liked cars, obviously, but we had like yeah, limited budget, so he was never into into buying Porsche or Ferrari. Uh me neither, by the way. It started when my first old time was a Carmangia, Volkswagen.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Oh, beautiful. My brother had a Carmangia.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, I had a little bit of money on the side when I was like 20, somewhat something, early 20s, and I bought a Carmangia.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Um Carmangia, I have to say it the right. Carmangia. My my girlfriend, I learned how to uh ride stick because the girlfriend I was dating at 16 had a Carming Gia.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

And at that time it was an old car.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, it was an old car. Yeah, it was. I don't know, it was from 70 something, but it was. But the thing was I I searched on the internet and my neighbor on the other side of the street had a old Porsche, and I and I was I go for a Porsche. And back in the days, they were like, I don't know, um, it was not expensive. They used to be like really, really cheap, you know. Um, and it was a red Porsche. So that was my goal. I said, okay, I go to visit the guy and see the red portion. I buy the Porsche. So I go together with my girlfriend back in the days, and the guy had to drive out to Carmangia to see the Porsche. And she was like, Oh my god, it's so beautiful. It's not the Porsche, it's Carmangia. This one said, Oh, but the green one, it was like olive green, it was beautiful. I said, No, no, this is not the one. We take we take the portion, and then the Porsche came out, but on the picture it was red, but it it was like sunburned for so many years. It was the red was not red anymore, it was more like pink, you know. It was like really, I was like, Yeah, pink Porsche, I don't know. Uh, so and then she was like, the Carmangia is so nice. So it was a guy say you can have it for the same price. So we took the Caramangia, drove home. Um yeah, and then I came home. I lived in this middle of the middle of the city in Antwerp, so Carmangia was in a garage. So I didn't drove with it that much. Um, and at some point I put in a new interior, like white uh white fake leather. Um, and then I then I went to see a technical guy because I had to do some stuff, and he said, and he said, you know, the car from the bottom is like just is like it's it's time to throw it away.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Right with away.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah, it rusted, it's beautiful. See, yeah, but it's rusted. But I had no clue about cars, yeah, absolutely not. So I ended up selling the car, and then I didn't buy anything for like six, seven, eight years, maybe. Um, and then I went to see for a Porsche in the Netherlands. I bought my first one, drove home, uh yeah, and then now you know you know how it goes. Then you come home, you're happy, but then the the same evening you're looking for okay, what can maybe I can upgrade to a 964, maybe I can go for 993, and then then you go back, and oh, maybe I want a 2.7 and oh no, 914, and then and you go all the things. Um basically it's the same process, then instead of uh enjoying the car and driving it as much as you can, you people look around for another one, yeah. And I see that with so many people, and I had the same with photography in the beginning. I think about like every camera and every lens available, and in my head, I was always thinking, okay, with this camera and this lens is gonna be better. It's bullshit, you know. Yeah, I say to people now, buy a camera, it doesn't have to be a hustleblatt, it doesn't have to be a like, it doesn't have to be a fancy camera at all. You know, I'm shooting with this in U2 as well. I think with these Olympus pen cameras, they're like 30 bucks, 50 bucks, and it's it's the half-frame camera, um, and it's just like a lot of fun and it's cheap, and it's not about it's not about having an expensive camera. You can you can go out with one lens, and this is what I do most of the time. I have a couple of I have a set of lenses, obviously, but uh most of the time before I go on a trip, I say to myself, okay, now I only take the 28 and maybe um the 50, those two lenses, and that's it. So I push myself to be creative when I'm there because when you have like 15 lenses, then it makes me uncomfortable with traveling so much stuff. Yeah, um, and I also second guessing which lens is best for what I want to shoot. And when you only have one lens, then you don't have to second guess because it's that's that's you only have one lens. So you have to you have to you have to walk around, you have to go closer, you have to go further away, depending on on the on the angle, on the the focal length. So I push myself to to make it fun this way and to keep myself busy while I'm shooting, yeah. Um and to to to to stay excited and and all of this stuff. But what I wanted to say is like it's not about it's not about the camera, like it's not about the car neither. You know, you can have one car and have fun for the rest of your life, but and I I do the same, you know. I always I had a 308 and I upgraded to 348. So okay, this is gonna be better. I'm gonna drive it more when it has air conditioning. But it's all it's all stories you tell in your head, of course.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Uh yeah, it's a it's a it's a common thing here where um because like I I have a a 986. I paid$7,200 for it. It was had 140,000 miles on it, and it is it's the most fun, you know, and I'm not like stressed about you know the price of it or if it's got a scratch or anything like that. But I find here that um a lot of people obsess about a certain car, they they look for it, they get it, and then they they look for something else to obsess about. And and I'm always wondering what what is is there a void they're trying to fill or what it is. And I find myself sometimes when I first got my Porsche and I started driving it around and I I enjoyed it, then I start I would, you know, uh bring a trailer, that that website.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So I I found myself on there looking at and then I would ask myself at two o'clock in the morning, what am I doing? Like what am I looking for? So then I made it a point to just stop looking and just enjoy my 986 and you know take that time into and put it into something else.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

You know, absolutely, absolutely. But well that there's if if you're a collector, then then maybe it's something different. But for sure. Yes, yes, yeah. But I'm not a collector. I I don't have I don't have the budget to to collect many cars, but at some point I had three old timers. Um and then it gave me a lot of uh headaches, to be honest, because it's always something. You have to run the garage, you you go to the garage, uh you forgot the keys, you go to the garage, the battery is dead. Oh it's always something, and then then you go out, nice day. Okay, which one do I take? Which is already uh a fucked up idea when you there's so many people with no car, yeah. And then you can choose between three, and still you're not happy. Yeah, still you're look looking around for maybe if I sell those two, I can upgrade to another one and I have two. Maybe I sell all of them and then buy something like oh, top, and then no, so it's a it's a mind fuck. Um and and yeah, 100% it's some it's it's too yeah, is because you're not happy at at with something in your life, and you try to fill this void with buying a car or buying another lens or another camera or another pair of jeans or another pair of boots, which I don't need. I have more boots than than whatever. I can fill an army with I can come over here and get my boots. But you always think like, oh, when I buy this pair of boots, yes, that's gonna be that's gonna be my last pair. Uh but yeah, it is. I think I think mark I think of course it's marketing from social media. You're always like, Oh, we get this information from everything, and in yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah. I wanted to go back, you said uh uh you you touched on a lot of things there. Um, you know, when when you first start out, you you can only afford maybe one lens, and you go out with a model, and you know, the the the creativity explodes. And then what happened to me is I started I was able to afford more lenses, and then I found myself almost inundated by like what lens do I use, or what and I found myself uh focusing more on the sub the on the actual gear than the actual subject. Um and one thing that my brother always told me, he was just like, just take get a 50 millimeter and just shoot with that and move your ass if you want to get closer, if you want to get further away. For somebody uh that's just starting out, would you suggest shooting film?

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Um yes and no. Yes, because it's it's I think it's always interesting to go back in time and realize what the old old photographers were doing. Like, because everybody's buying books from old photographers, but people don't realize the effort they have to put in to to get it right. Because nowadays you just shoot and it's and it's it's perfect. Like, you know, it's sharp, it's it's it's um it's every it's not it's not overexposed, it's not under it's perfect now. So but when you shoot on film, you have to think a little bit. Um also you have to be careful because there's only 36 pictures in in a roll of film. So if you just like shoot away, it's gonna be expensive. So I always with my books, I always stick to the plan and I always said, okay, I shoot two rolls of film, not more. Sometimes I did three, of course.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

But um you mean like in a in a day or like uh in a shoot, you'll take only two rolls?

SPEAKER_02 32:33

In a shoot, in a shoot. Because I can I never shoot a day. I cannot shoot a day, I shoot like two hours, three hours max. Then I lose, then I lose it.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Um you lose the light or your inspiration or your my inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Uh then I start looking at the birds, and and because I also I also think, especially the the stuff I'm shooting, obviously it's different for um different for other photographers, but I I always think if I cannot shoot it in an hour or two hours, I probably cannot shoot it in a day neither, because I just have to shoot a car, you know. If it's a commercial for a for a brand and the light has to be perfect, and there's a crew with 50 people and blah blah blah blah blah and they have to put a horse in the in the car, then I understand it's gonna take a day or a week, whatever. But it it's never been my kind of photography. I just like I go I go to meet someone, and he has a nice car, and we look for a location and we shoot, and that's always done within two hours. So um same for a portrait shoot, I go in, it is what it is. I try to shoot the best possible picture that I can, and and I go. Um so with all the portraits that I did, we never used makeup, it was all like like just daylight. People, um, they are who they are. Because I Anton Corbin, the Dutch photographer, was a big inspiration for me. Um, I was obsessed with his photography, and it was if you look at his books, it was a lot like black and white, deep blacks, high contrast. A lot of his pictures were not sharp at all, a little bit like off. It was like there's something going on, it's like wow, and and I was never aiming for the perfect picture, like sharp, like I just like aiming for a mood. Um, and I think that's missing a in a lot of stuff these days. I think I I miss it in cars, I miss it in photography, I miss it in fashion. Like I'm missing something, um, which is like, hey, wow.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Um it's interesting because a lot of people compare Anton to uh Peter Lindbergh, and I feel like they're completely different because Peter Lindbergh is so clean and crisp, and Anton is very real.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

You know, so when you say that he inspired you, that that makes a lot of sense. You know, it's been well documented that you don't really like to do location scouts. Do you just stick to a certain time of day knowing that the light is going to be working for you?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Well, if if I have to shoot a car, um and it has to be the client asks to me, like, hey, I really want to have black and white. I try to avoid like like harsh, harsh light, obviously, because then you have the harsh shadows, and so we try to shoot early in the morning or uh towards the evening, uh, so the light is a little bit softer. Um, if you shoot color, then on film, then I then I sometimes shoot during daylight as well because it's it's nice and and creamy. Um so, but I was never really like obsessed with the the light and the time of the hour. I always went out and I was like, I'll make the best out of it. Um if it rains, fine. Uh if the sun is shining, well, we figure it out. There's always, even if it's like three o'clock in the afternoon and the sun is like on top of you and harsh, and whatever you want, you can always find a an angle or a spot where you're standing in the shadow a little bit. Um, so I always but I think for myself that I always did it the way I wanted to do it, and it always worked out like well, nice or okay. Um at least the best that I could do for myself. Um, so I find it, and this is something interesting. I had uh I photographed Anton Corbin a couple of times, and I had something. Yeah, what was that like? Um well it was like meeting a hero, but he's very down, he's very down to earth, he's very interesting guy. And I I asked him at some point, I said, Anton, listen, when you go out for a shoot, like when you go to um Nick Cave or whatever, I said, how many time do you have? Because I had a couple of weird, not weird experiences, but I was shooting like with Dave Gann from Depishmode, and of course that's that's a shot, right? Yeah, uh, but that's another level of of celebrities, you know. And he has a manager, and he was like, I was walking around with with with um with him for two days already, like just the managers aren't usually the nicest people. Oh no, but he's getting paid to say no, of course, at the manager. So and at some point the manager said, Okay, so you want a picture? Yes, that's what I'm here for, like for three days already. He said, Okay, I have a room. Where do you want to shoot? And I say, Yeah, it was in Paris. So it's a nice balcony, and then you see over Paris and say, We're not gonna do that. Too much, you know. We have a room set up for you, and okay. So I walk into this room, and obviously, uh it's not for me alone, but he had a couple of interviews there for TV. Um, and you know, when TV is coming, there's a lot of light. So I walk in this room and it's an ugly, it's an ugly room, and there's so much light. And I'm like, I I don't want to shoot here, yeah. But I I had no option. Um, so Dave Gahan walks in and says, Hey, because he remembered me from the day before. Um he said, You want to shoot? So, yeah, please, thank you. And I said, Where do you want to shoot? Say, This looks like a nice wall, but I'm shooting on film, so I go like click one, two, three. I look at my film, and the manager taps on my shoulder and says, That's it. Thank you. And I was like, Oh, thank you. I said, Yeah, thank you. Next, and I was like, Fuck, it's like three or four pictures, yeah, and those are the three pictures you see on my website, which one is like sharp, and the other one is like uh completely blurry, but it's a nice one, yeah, because you you you have to look and then you look oh yeah, it's Dave Gan. You know, if you look from a distance, you see, but if you go close, it's like it's blurry. But um, so I told Anton, said Anton, you know, I had this experience like I only had a couple of minutes, and he said, It's the same with me, uh, especially in the beginning. You know, now he's like Anton Corbin, and people sit down and wait and talk with him. But in the beginning of his career, he just told me, so yeah. Sometimes I went to big bands and they say, Yeah, 50 minutes, and then you make the best out of it. End of the story, uh, wherever it is. Um, and that's also something that I always remembered like, okay, wherever I go now, I'll I go in and make sure I'm prepared and make the best out of it. And there, coming out of the that shoot with Dave Gann, I was frustrated because I was shooting on film, and I said this can't happen to me anymore. I need to I need to make sure I can make more pictures. So I went to the Leica store and bought a like a Q, like a Q2.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Uh digital?

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Uh yeah, uh digital. So and I'm I always want to shoot on film, but I said for this kind of stuff, maybe it's interesting because you know when you shoot on film, people sometimes don't realize it, but when you shoot um um ISO 400, it's gonna be ISO 400 for the for the full for the 36 pictures for the full role. You cannot go from 400 to 3200 and then back to 100 on the same roll of film. With digital, you just you come in and say it's too dark. So I push it to 6400 or whatever you need, and you just you push a button, click, click, you go, and that's it. Yeah, um, because I had shoots where I came in with with either 400 cameras, they're like, it's way too dark here. So, yeah, you have you have two minutes, it's up to you. You want to shoot or you don't want to shoot. Yeah, okay, let's shoot and let's not try to move because otherwise it's like yeah, so so I don't there's nothing I have nothing against digital photography, of course, but I just feel more that I'm that I'm that I'm hitting it more when I'm shooting on on film on film. Um that's why I told you when I shoot a car, I'm very confident with two rolls of film that's 72 pictures, but I'm very confident that I make 15 to 20 great pictures, and when I do the same with a digital camera, in my head I'm shooting 72 pictures, but then I come home and all of a sudden it's like 400. Like, what happened? Yeah, and then from those 400, it's like 300 look exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Yeah, and and so but it goes back to like the uh having too many lenses on you, it's just too many options.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

It's too many options, yeah. Yeah, it gives you stress, and some probably some people feel really confident with having a lot of lenses, but for me, just one camera, one body, a 50 millimeter, a 28, whatever, should go out and shoot.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Um I had a similar experience with uh with Connor McGregor. And and when I uh I started off with film, then when I got into digital, my digital photography was like I would just I just cover everything as much as possible. And then because of uh the Distinguished Gentleman's ride, I brought out my um I brought out the F the F3 just because it was more of an accessory, and then I shot and then when I got the film back, I wasn't even like I wasn't that anxious to get the film back. When I got the film back, I it just I fell back in love with with my and then I I never put it down. But now if I shoot digital, I shoot with way more intentionality as if I'm shooting film. Yeah, so that that that has helped me a lot. When did you do uh oh, I wanted to ask you, what is your development process? Do you do you like do you have a lab that you work with? Do you develop yourself or yeah?

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I used to develop myself um in the beginning because it's of obviously it's a lot of fun, but it's also very, very time consuming. Yeah, um, and if you send it to a specialized lab, which I do right now in Germany, they are just way better than I do it. Um they scan in high resolution, um, they know what I want. Um, and it's like I think 23 or 25 euro, whatever, for one roll of film. So it's not cheap if you come from from a trip and you have like 100 films, okay. It's gonna cost you a little bit of money. Yeah but on the other hand, it's it saves you time. Uh a week later they just send you a link and you have all the pictures on your on your on your laptop. Um but that's why I said when you when you start Photoshop today and you wanna stick to the plan and shoot only film, it's expensive. Um because I think a film, a roll of film here is now around 10 to 12 euro, and I paid like 17-18 dollars in the States sometimes for a film. Yeah, um, so yeah, that's a lot of money. If you should and then the camera, and then uh so yeah. Um, I understand why people buy digital camera, of course.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

It's it's um I just think education. I just think like learning the f stop and learning if you really want to learn the camera and you know take. It seriously if if just start off with film, just at least to play around. I mean, there's it's it's interesting how much the I see young kids walking around with a with a you know a three thousand dollar Leica or something like that or whatever, and I'm just like, okay, like that's great, you know. But um I wanted to touch on your books. I know you you you've talked about them at length, but are are they self-published?

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah, all of them.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yeah. Can uh can you talk about that process?

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Yeah, but it's not something I can recommend recommend neither because uh but I always wanted to have full control of of of the process, and and I never really reached out to to a publisher. So um, but first book, first book was like but like a guess. Like, you know what, let's let's make a book, let's see where we go. We print thousand books at 911, so we print thousand books, and let's see. So um, so I printed the book and it worked, and then we decided to make a second book, and then uh I have a graphic designer, um, which is a friend of mine. Um, he said, you know what, this is this is what I do for a living. I'm a graphic designer, just send me all the pictures and I will make sure they look great in the book. So um he said, Let's put on the first book, like a P on the side from the P from Porsche, and then the second one and O. I said, Yeah, but listen, if we put P O, then we need the other seven, you know, it's like seven letters, Porsche. So yeah, and we make seven books a series. Okay, let's do it. And that was a little bit of stress for me because, like, oh my god, you know, I have I have to make seven books now. Um, I cannot let people down with like three books, a P or R, and then that's it.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Um that was smart by your graphic designer. He's like, I just got six that was smart by your graphic designer.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

He's like, I just got five more books out of yeah, a smart from him, but it was like, yeah, if the second one doesn't sell, uh then I'm you know, I'm screwed. But then it's just it all went fine. Yeah, it's just porn. It all went fine, and and and then I did another one, another one, and I think I did 14 now. Um, and one of them is a portrait book, which I still very much like.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Um, so you shot what you did one book in color. Can you talk about the decision to do that?

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Well, it was like um I there was a the 10 book, and and the book is named Early Color. And is named if you're into photography and you know Saul Letter, and Soul Latter has all also a book which is called Early Color, and his color photography is is out of this world. I it's so beautiful. Um, and I just wanted to try and do something different, and I I shot a uh completely uh a book on film Portra 400, Portra 160, and it's beautiful. Um I don't mean I don't mean the book, but I I mean shooting in color is like it's it's it's different experience. Um and it's beautiful as well because I always wanted to shoot black and white, black and white, black and white. Um but yeah, I always wanted to also wanted to um test myself and um see if I still had the same um excitement and drive and vibe and uh happiness if I if I was shooting in color, and it was yeah, it was super nice. Um although I I I I prefer black and white because it's it's really timeless. Um uh but um yeah, it was a nice experience, and I'm not gonna say I'm I'm never gonna shoot in because I did the Ferrari book as well. There I switched between color and black and white. Uh, because the thing is when you shoot in black and white and you shoot cars, um, there's some colors which don't really work in black and white. For red, for example, that doesn't really work in black and white. Yeah, it's it's it's not really beautiful. It's a white car is great, a black car is great, and then then yeah, everything else is like in between, you know, shades of gray. Um but I was shooting these Ferraris, and some of them, obviously, a lot of them were in red, uh, but they have some beautiful colors out there. Um the same with the same with Porsche's, and yeah, I wanted to I wanted to shoot in color. You touched on the Ferrari, I wanted to sorry, you touched on the Ferrari.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

I want to I want to I want to talk about that, but before you have the the dream and drive in the 305, and you know, looking at that book, I realized that I never saw or think of Miami in black and white. And looking at that book, a lot of times you look at the pictures and you're and you have to ask yourself, is that Miami? And usually when you see a picture of Miami, you'll look like, oh, that's Miami. Um what did you ever have any thoughts of shooting Miami in color, or was that very intentional to shoot it black and white? I mean you you should most of your work is black and white anyways.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Yeah, yeah. No, I wanted to shoot that book in black and white because shooting it in color would be too obvious. And then you end up with the with the graffiti and the neon and everything. Um, like, hey, this is Miami. So um I'd I I had some doubts in the beginning, like Miami in black and white, you know. Every place on earth in black and white, it looks nice, but Miami is like, it's tricky, you know. Yeah, because it's really you cannot think of if you think of Miami, you think of color. Um so but we went, I didn't really shoot like in design district or all the things. So we went to like Little Havana and Little Haiti, and those places are great to shoot in black and white, um, because it's rough, it's really rough. Uh and then timeless as well. Yeah, yeah. Because obviously you you've been to Miami, um, and if you if you avoid the the city, you it's it can be pretty rough there.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Um more than people think. So you also did uh dream and drive in in uh the 305 and then uh also um uh live and drive in LA.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

To live and drive in L?

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Yeah, to live and drive in LA. Can you uh touch on the difference between the two cult car cultures there? Because they're they are similar in the fact that we can drive year-round. But do you see uh a difference in the car culture in in Miami or in LA?

SPEAKER_02 50:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um Miami, you need to have like well, when people buy a car in Miami, and I don't want to generalize, but I mean most people do. If you buy a car in Miami, first thing they do is they lower the car, they put new wheels on the car in probably shiny uh color and a big engine. Because everything is like flat and straight, yeah. Um, because it doesn't make sense, and it's too hot in Miami as well. So it doesn't make sense to buy a 912 without air conditioning in Miami because you you're not going to drive a car, right? Um unless you're a diehard, but it's it's really it's it's too hot. Yeah, but in California, um the roads are beautiful. You can go up in the mountains and you can yeah, you can enjoy and have a picnic and whatever. Um but like Miami, you need if you go to the this beautiful event from my friend Alvaro, um, it's called DRT, that's Ren Travel. It's really it's a great event. But if you see those cars, like I think 80-90% is like GT3, turbo, uh new stuff. Which I think yeah, it's it's just me neither, but it's just different. Yeah, and they have to they have to go fast and they have they need air conditioning. Um like I will probably end up a new car as well when I would live in Miami, like California. I would say, oh, I ship my 912 and this is gonna be the car for the rest of my life, you know. Um just drive around. Uh, but I love I love both places. Uh if I had to choose and like okay, I want to live, then I would go for then would go for California. Um because it has I'm not saying it has a four seasons, but the the weather is changing a little bit um more there, um, and it's it's not too hot.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Like Miami summers, no fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yeah, so you are uh unofficial um like uh ambassador to Porsche photography. How did the Ferrari Prancing Horses come about? And did you get any like blowback from whatever community? Like, wow, you're doing Ferrari now.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Yeah, you always have you have some people who say, Oh but I I think in every community there's people who who really only want to drive a Porsche, and then this is also the type of people who when they go out have a jacket which is Porsche and a cap which is Porsche, and then the watch from Porsche, and then sunglasses from Porsche. I was never into that. I always try to, when I wanted to buy a watch, for example, I like to buy a watch from a real watch brand like uh Rolex or a Cartier or whatever, something like hey, they have a they have a legacy, and uh you know, and if I want to buy sunglasses, then I want to buy whatever a Jack Marimage or whatever, something I don't feel the need to buy uh sunglasses from from which is Porsche on the side, but it's all good. Uh so yeah, obviously I had some people say, What are you doing now? You're cheating. Uh you no, I just I'm open, I'm open to I'm open to I'm a photographer. I I never said I was my my last name was Porsche. Yes, um, so uh if I see that is it something how did it come about?

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Is this something you pursued or were you approached?

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Uh no, I was not approached. I I just wanted to do something different, uh, because I bought a Ferrari and and and all of a sudden you go you go in the excitement, you start looking around, and okay, which models are are available. And obviously, I didn't know that much people um in the Ferrari world, which was for me something um super interesting because I had to reinvent myself and go out there and say, Hey, I'm this guy and I'm shooting cars. I said, Well, so they have to look look up my name, and they didn't know, and yes, no, while when shooting Porsches, I was at a point after 10-12 years that I was pretty confident that people who are into Porsches or knew my name or saw my picture here and there, but they didn't realize it was me. So, and I had so many contexts built up over the year that it was like getting easy to shoot, like, hey, maybe I want to shoot Gialeno, let's call this or this or this guy, and he probably has the number of Gialeno, and then okay, let's fix it. So um I I wouldn't say it was getting easy, but I just wanted to it helps to yeah, yeah, of course it helps. Um, and it helps uh selling as well. And I had people who are disappointed say, Yeah, but I lost it a little bit because you're shooting now big names like Gieleno and blah blah. And I preferred your photography when you were shooting like the guy next door. And I totally understand the way of thinking because the guy next door has probably a more interesting story to tell about his car, or it relates to them as well. But for me, it was like, hey, wow, let's shoot like Patrick Dempsey or uh Jay Leno or whatever uh celebrate celebrity with his car was a little bit of an achievement, and I of obviously I wanted to do it, and of course, it also helps um selling, and that's also something weird, but people think this way, you know, if you do an exhibition and you have the picture from J Leno, then people go, Oh, this guy has photographed Jalen, so that's what it's all about. Yeah, so it doesn't mean that you're a better photographer because you're shooting Gielena, but on the other hand, yes, it is because you don't shoot Jalen on your first shoot. Like you have to build you have to build it up.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

You have to go through the the different stages and over the years, and then then then you get where you want to be. But um, but Ferrari had to start from scratch and reach out to people again.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

And um I mean that's like saying somebody from your local uh Belgium soccer team or football team gets uh is good enough, and then Real Madrid hires them and they're like, Hey, you sold out. It's like, no, that's the that's what we're trying to do here. We're we're trying to elevate to the point to get to the pros.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

And then you have this whole body of work that you can look at that I I put in the the hard work, you know.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Yeah. So and and you know, in and in the beginning, everybody likes your work, and the more you the more books you produce, and the more people you know, and you grow a little bit on Instagram, and then then then you have the haters and you have people like you know, but it's it's like with everything you do, and then you have people, oh I went to meetings where I had an exhibition where people complain, like, why is he having an exhibition here? He's not even a photographer. Like, okay, whatever. I'm just trying to to do what I like and to try what I think that I do best. I never said that I was the best photographer, and uh because there's no such thing as the best photographer, there's no such such thing as the best music band, whatever. It's just like you like it or you don't like it. And I always shoot for myself, I never shoot for an audience. If I like it and I think it's good enough to make a book, then I make a book. And if people like my book, then I'm then I'm happy and then I'm lucky, and then fine. If people don't like my book, that doesn't mean my pictures are bad. Then maybe you just touched something. That's what I experienced with my portrait book, and I was super proud of my portrait book, but it didn't really sell that well. Because because people who follow me on Instagram, I think 80 to 90 percent are car people, and they're like, Yeah, I don't care about portraits, so uh, so you have to you have to build up a new community who are into portrait photography all of a sudden, yeah. Um which is yeah, it's kind of strange.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

And yeah, for me now, I mean at the point of the yeah for me it was the opposite, not at your level, but I am a portrait photographer, and then I started shooting cars and motorcycles, and I got people saying, like, oh, so you're a car and f motorcycle photographer now. And one thing I always got was um, and my brother always told me, he's like, you know, if you just focus on one thing, even if it's shooting bananas, you will get hired because you will be that banana guy. And but for me, I I think my through line is people and making a connection with people. So I I just love to shoot everything. Um, another thing is I I um one of my various jobs in New York is I was a uh set designer, I totally fell into it and I completely got lucky that uh this set designer hired me who was working in fashion, and my first job with him was with uh Steven Myselle. And at the time I didn't even know who Stephen Myiselle was. So, like I had like this three-year I call it my university where I I worked with Stephen Myzel, with Stephen Klein, with Mario Testino, Andy Liebowitz. So I got to see how certain photographers approached the shoot, and I saw how different certain people were. And one of my favorites was Mario Testino because he never put the camera down. He had four or five cameras around, he was always taking portraits of people, and the antithesis of that was Andy Leibowitz, where everybody on set was so uncomfortable, and you know you you just didn't want to. How important is it for you to make a connection with somebody? And I and I think that that's a lot easier when you only have one camera, one lens, you have no assistance, you have no lights around you. How how important is it for you to make the human connection first?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

Well, it's it's it's all that matters for me. Um, I think it's a it's a benefit that I'm uh most of the time I walk walk in a room on my own. I don't have an assistant, I don't have, so it's it's it's more comfortable. Um I only have one camera, most of the time it's a small camera, or if it's a hassle bot, it's a little bit bigger. But and I always I don't know why, but uh well I have an idea why, but I always have the feeling that people trust me um to take their portrait. Um and I think it's because I just walk in a room exactly the way I would walk in a room when I would see you, and I walk in the same style or vibe or whatever. I walk in with Jay Leno. Hey Jay, how are you? Um, how was your day? Blah blah blah. Uh oh, that's a nice car driving by. So I was never like really starstruck and never asking for can we take selfie? Um, I never did that. Um, well, with Jay Leno, you have no choice because he's asking everybody else, let's go for you know the selfie. But uh and then I had was with my kids, so they liked it, but my kids had no clue who he was. Um but yeah, when I when I photographed uh Patrick Dempsey, I was like, Oh my god, this is this is a huge star, like in the States. Uh, it was via uh uh Patrick Long. So I photographed Patrick Long a couple of times, and he said, Yeah, I can set you up with Dempsey, no problem. So, and with Patrick, I was a little bit like, ooh, this is another level again, you know. He was super nice, like, hey, get in the car and let's take some gas first. So we're driving in the mountains in Malibu, and he's like, What are you shooting? He said, Yeah, Hassleblood said, Give me the camera. So we were like, and he was taking pictures of me with his with a hassle blood, like just in the car, like because he was really asking he was into photography, yeah, as well. Um, and I don't know, but we're like nice talk and blah blah blah. We take the pictures, and it was like easy going. Um but I I I never went for hey, can we take a selfie for my best friend? Because he asked me to, and then if you do that, then you then you fuck it up, yeah. Um, and I learned this lesson um in the beginning of my career when I was um shooting um Helen Oates. So I was shooting John Oates, and John Oates is when he still got along. No, uh but uh he he's uh he's a car guy, he's a huge car driver and a good driver as well. And at some point they had um had a show in Belgium, uh and he called me and said, Hey, I'm in Belgium, so let's have a pizza in Antwerp. And the good thing is when you go out in Antwerp for a pizza with John Oates, nobody recognizes him. While he's I think it's one of the best selling duos in the States, like in the state, it's huge, but here everybody knows his songs, but nobody really recognizes him because he had he got rid of the moustache, you know. He always had this this this moustache, so thick mustache, yeah. Yeah, so we're having pizza, and the next day it had the concert, and I was backstage with with them taking pictures, and at some point I go out, and there's some some fans standing, like, hey, hey, hey, uh, with records. Hey, can you ask uh John Oates to sign this record? And I was like, Yeah, give the records. So I walk back in, give him the records, hey, there's some guys who want me to ask, and he said, But listen, I'm gonna sign it for you, but don't do that anymore. Because those guys go home, they're not fans, they go home, they put it on eBay, and they try to sell for more. And there I realized, like, okay, this is not what you do when you go out with a celebrity and ask another one a favor for someone else, because then then you jeopardize, you jeopardize your chances of working with them again because they're gonna think this is an annoying guy, you have to do the autograph, the self-use. So from that point, I said, no, never again.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

So yeah, it changes the dynamic of the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

Absolutely, absolutely. So um, I never did it again, I apologized, I never did it again. And now when I go out for a shoot, I just be myself, I make the jokes that I want to make, and if they if they don't arrive, they don't arrive. But there's no point in in being somebody else and and do like do weird all of a sudden uh or freeze. Um and I always have have I go in for a shoot and I'm I'm confident, and I'm also confident like this is my moment, I'm gonna take a picture of you, not the other way around. So five minutes we have, you know, I'm the photographer and you're the model, even if it's like Dave Gang, whatever, you try to be like, okay, here I am. Yeah, go a little bit on the left, tack, tack, tack. And in the beginning, you struggle with that because oh my god, do I really have to say sit down? But you learn, and after a while, you just say, Jay, sit down, it's gonna be better. And if he doesn't want to sit down, he will probably say, I don't want to sit down, and then yeah, you figure something else, you figure it out. But um that's something you have to learn. But you do it in a respectful way. I always try to make the jokes and and be like, hey, whatever, and and I shoot fast, and like I go out as fast as possible because I know they have a life as well, you know. Yeah, uh, because people don't realize sometimes that just like people like you and I, and they have a they have they don't want to have their picture taken every day from 247.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

So um I think we forget that these celebrities or people that people put on a pedestal, I think they really do. star for human connection without the cameras and without the asking them to sign thing and the selfies and stuff. So when they do meet somebody like that, uh they really do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And and and you have to respect it as well. And and it's not because they like playing and they're an actor that they they they like all the shit coming with being famous. You know, because maybe at first but and afterwards it's like because it is really if you're on that kind of level it is really it's a shit show. Um and I realized that with Dempsey every time you stop you see people like just stopping the car run out of the car to him like oh my god McDreamy can you take a selfie and he's like of course let's go yeah and after 15 times I was thinking oh my god this must be annoying yeah it must be annoying you know but he kept like smiling and like hey you know and people say it's part of the job no yeah not really yeah not really you know um so but yeah so Bart I really appreciate your time I just have a couple more questions um I I just discovered and this might be from you I discovered uh I'm gonna butcher his name here um David Galstin yeah so I I just discovered him it might have been through you but then I also saw on one of your posts that you're you are you collaborating with him or what what's what's going on there it's very exciting well yeah well I I saw his picture and it's it's obviously it's AI but it's like wow this was great with the horses and the and I was never really into AI but everybody uses it every day so I don't want to be a hypocrite neither but I I never use it in my photography but I use it for it like if I want to write something whatever it always helps but this guy is AI and but he was like nice and I said so I'm texting him but he's living in in in I think he's in Iran or uh far away so he had to use a translator and I had to use a translator because um he doesn't speak english uh but his picture was nice can can I can I buy you one of your pictures because I really want to have it like a print it's super nice even if even if it's ai it's a certain vibe and then um he sent me the picture you do whatever you want with the pictures and I said maybe I send you a couple of my Porsche pictures maybe you can do the same stuff with the horses and and and he did some some tricks with it uh but it's obviously it's AI um because it's funny because I posted one of those pictures uh and a lot of people really really liked it and but I have some texts from people like oh this is cheating and this is well it's just something else it's just something you have to accept like it's a new world and in 15 years everything's gonna be like that and it is what it is. Am I going there? No I don't think so but I I like shooting on film and that's enough for me uh I'm 50 so I don't feel the need to go into AI anymore but I can imagine if you start today as a photographer or as an artist whatever you want to go all in on on AI digital art yeah probably there's an audience for it um like there's an audience for electric cars as well and there will be an audience for everything um so but I don't know him I never met him I just spoke with him on WhatsApp and we have to translate this stuff but um yeah that's amazing so um in your career you're pretty far along in your career you're very well established what still inspires you today um well go out and wake up in the morning early have my coffee go to a shoot and put that role in and and like smell on the film and like okay let's go like this first clack like the sound of the the sound of the shutter when even if you should unlock that something we I still love this I still love this and the excitement between the shoot and the time in between the shoot and you seeing the pictures like 10 days or whatever two weeks or sometimes more because you don't know well of course obviously you know what you have been uh shooting but it's still like how did they come out and with a digital camera is like people go like click look click look so you lose your flow yeah um and I do the same when I shoot digital click oh look is it okay okay and with analog you just shoot and then then there's then there's this gap of time where you have to wait yeah and then you see the picture like two weeks later it's like wow um this is something which is still um is super exciting for me and and and I still love it uh but I'm at a point right now where I think I want to shoot something different um which gives me a little bit more depth in my life uh not that I don't like to shoot cars uh um but I struggled a long time because people were calling me a car photographer and I said no I'm not a car photographer but yeah if you make 14 books with cars you probably are I kept a car photographer but um no I for example I have um a shoot in uh October it's at a horse fair in uh in Ireland and you have all these yeah and this is I'm looking forward to this because it's yeah you have the horses you have the people there it's very different from the rest of Europe and a friend of mine lives there in sea part you come over and you will see characters you have never seen in your life because it's like kids you know in an in a in a tracksuit 30 years old no teeth anymore with a cigarette you know really really rough and and I I would love to shoot that that's what I'm going to do um the problem is if I'm am I going to make a book or a magazine or people going to buy that you never know but um it doesn't mean it it it's it's bad photography it's just like yeah it's just something different and this is what I mean with I want something that gives me more depth yeah into my life is um it's this kind of photography.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:29

I'm sure that people ask you all the time oh so when are you gonna shoot New York? When are you gonna shoot London? When are you gonna shoot this city? But I have to ask you is Tokyo in the cards for you because the Japanese you know they take any type of culture and they just somehow do it better. And they somehow just you know nail it and from me getting into this car culture and stuff and following more people in Japan and being introduced to that and I'm just obsessed with Tokyo and Japanese culture in general so I have to ask you is Tokyo ever in the cards for a shoot have you been to Tokyo have you shot there no no I've never been there wow no and I have some friends brother you have to go yeah I have some friends in LA um Takashi and Kyoko um Emily Sawamura they all told me let's go just go it's it's it's gonna blow you they would roll out the red carpet for you because they really they do their they do their homework and when somebody comes that knows what they're doing they they take care of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:32

Yeah I just have to because in my in my head Tokyo is something that I need to shoot in color. Oh really yeah but maybe I have to go to and stick to the plan and just like I did in Miami and shoot it in black and white like boom this is my view on Tokyo because there's so many books right now and type 7 did a lot of great stuff in Tokyo with with that um and it's a great book um and I don't I just don't want to be the next guy shooting a car book in in Tokyo so if I want to do it I want to do it my way like grainy black and white rough um so yeah yeah but yeah obviously I would love to go but it's not that it's cheap to go because the flights are super expensive. Yeah um so but yeah it's it's on it's on my list.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

So yeah amazing so this this podcast is called shoot wisely and it's something that my brother always told me to do and I kind of interpret it in my own ways and it was very loose so it's a little annoying because I never really understood what he was saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:36

What would your interpretation or your advice to shoot wisely be I would say shoot less instead of shoot more uh which sounds like a cliche but I mean and that's sh maybe maybe try and shoot on film and stick to the plan and shoot like two roles and and that's I think that's shooting wisely because then you have to focus on you have to be dedicated you have to make sure you get it right you have to frame you have to think maybe you have to wait for the the bicycle or the car just passing by in the frame instead of just like firing like a a and shoot like a thousand pictures and then of course you have it because you just took thousand pictures from from one thing um so I think that's wisely and also don't listen to other people and just go out and shoot and think well shoot what you love to shoot. If it's gonna be elephants then then make sure you're the best or try to be the best elephant photographer out there. Don't try to mix it up with um a wedding and then the elephants and then the cars and just stick to your stick to your thing and try to be as best as you can for yourself. And that's sometimes it's frustrating and annoying because I see great photographers on Instagram and they call me they really struggle they don't sell anything and so they try to sell stuff for like 75 euro for a print and you know and once you're there um it's hard to to go to the other side and all of a sudden say no now it's 5,000 for a print so it's it's it's tricky it's it's not easy but I would say stick to the plan and shoot whatever you like to shoot and and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

Perfect. I really appreciate your time. So if people are interested in your work and uh purchasing books or purchasing prints is is your website the best place to go yeah they can WhatsApp me or go to my website or whatever. Yeah. Perfect all good easy. Awesome but I really appreciate your time it's been I could I could talk for another couple hours with you. And I look forward to seeing you when you come to LA yeah that should be November. Okay perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

I'll see you go out and shoot together.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:55

Oh I'd love that if you know someone that would find this conversation useful please share. Your support is greatly appreciated as we build the shoot wisely community. Thank you for listening to the Shoot Wisely podcast. I'm your host Amir Bahimi